All characters besides Buttercup, Cass, Daemon, Zerocool and Nidhoggr need to be buffed

  • @AngelsoftheAir Cass needs nerfs? I can't really agree with that. Cass is the literal embodiment of the Advanced category. If you get good with Cass you 100% deserve your kills.

    Also tanks are front-liners. It's not really your job to hunt-down ranged characters unless they're in your vicinity (there are always exceptions though). You're more supposed to be a giant distraction / peeler. Though if you play Buttercup snagging a Cass who isn't legging it should be a day at the pond, with the ol' hook. 😄

  • @AngelsoftheAir The only tank that can even remotely to try catch Cass is Buttercup. That's by design though. If you're only playing Tanks then Cass is going to feel pretty damn strong.

    Buttercup is pretty damn good but that's partially because the only other tank like her, Makutu, needs a buff real bad. Once Mekko is out I think we'll see more balance among tanks. I looove El Bastardo but he doesn't play like the other two and has different strengths and weaknesses.

    Death Dance is the best AOE super in the game for sure, but it's also super easy to counter or cancel then smack down on the Cass. At some point you're going to have to learn that you HAVE to pay attention and stop it. I never have a problem against her because I can either evade away or stun her. Of course if I'm playing Kulev then I am seriously at her mercy hah, but Kulev can also beat her 1v1 normally even if he can't catch her.

    Doesn't Daemon have 600 hp? The lowest alongside Cass? Low hp and high mobility seems to be the primary tradeoff with this game, and I'm inclined to think it's in about the right spot.

    Zerocool is tricky. I'm of the opinion that he does need a nerf though. Really what I think should happen is his healing orb should drain slower and refill slower, he shouldn't be able to heal if it's empty, and it should tick healing out at a rate about 50% its current max speed. Cause right now the fall off of the heal is super fast, but you heal from 0 to 100 in the time. Then if you turn off healing for a few seconds you get it all back way too quickly. It's just such a weird way they set it up, like it's suppose to be a diminishing resource but it isn't.

    Nidhoggr has so many abilities that are so easy to dodge (if you're not a tank), so I think it's fair they're rewarding if you land them. More often that not I see a Nidhoggr by himself stunning 1 other person with Ride the Lightning and doing almost no damage to them. Or whiffing it entirely. A coordinated team obviously can do better, but a better coordinated enemy team will also knock Nidhoggr out of his super much faster. You should always counter the supers you're afraid of - might I suggest Gizmo's Rocket or Nidhoggr's Death Growl for super countering.

    Gizmo, Kulev, and Maeve are also often considered OP so it's strange to think they need a buff right now.

    Miko does not need a buff, people just need to learn how valuable Kinetic Shield is and that while it's cool your staff heals it has a pretty small radius so it's better to stay with your team and use your low CD chain heal often.

    Makutu needs some buffs to his more useless abilities (cough Pepeke stance and Leg-it cough). El Bastardo is mostly fine stat wise but could perhaps use some quality changes - after getting the 15% speed on Death Spiral mod I now consider it mandatory to play him and that makes me think it should be in his kit by default.

  • @Fallenknight113 Maeve is by far the most op character in this game. Every game she has 20+ kills. No matter what, especially if ZERO Chill is on her healing it's almost a guaranteed setup for a team wipe

  • @Fallenknight113 Where's maeve in this? They all have weak points except for that old lady.

  • @Fallenknight113

    i disagree, to early to say. also im suprised you didnt mention miko, shes pretty powerfull.

    @AngelsoftheAir ehhh nah cass is one of those characters who is super vulnerable against some players but super powerfull against others. but if you are good she is literally useless to her team, even if you dont kill her. puushing her out of a fight is basically a win.

    @Evade-This5965 buttercup??? buttercup is one of the better tanks against cass, grapple, oil, and then she has a faster dash to keep up with cass, plus she has a charge attack that will fly her towards cass.

  • Cass Ultimate is amazing, but any kind of stun or such knocks her out of it (and then she gets chomped real fast since she'll be in the middle of the enemy team). Miko counters Cass pretty hard, can freeze her out of her Ultimate and/or use the shield. Pretty easy to take her 1v1...I've killed full HP & DMG buffed Cass's when I started with like 300 HP as Miko. Tanks are supposed to have a hard time catching up to Cass, otherwise they'd just steamroll her. Buttercup can 1v1 Cass, or at least doesn't have many issues with her.

    Nidhoggr's Ultimate does too much DMG IMHO, but otherwise he seems fine. His fire has short range and his axe can be dodged, he also has limited mobility/no escapes (unlike every other DMG character).

    Maev is nuts in the hands of a pro, she seems like the only character without a weakness/an answer for everything?

    ZeroCool is the best healer by far, playing as him it seems pretty ridiculous to be honest. I 2v4 with him often. His heal ability needs some tweaking...the "charge/recharge" part barely matters as it stands, I'd like to see it adjusted to where you have to actually consider when & how much to heal.

  • @D4m0R3d

    buttercup is one of the better tanks against cass

    That's basically what I said.

  • @Evade-This5965

    oh lol dont know how i read it wrong.


    nidhoggrs ult doesnt do that much dmg. compare it to all the other utls. and i mean look at it. it will only take away 1/4th of their HP. the good part about his ult is that it stuns them and allows your team to dmg them.

    also nidhoggr has a powerslide wich can work as his escape

    maeves weakness is dive. its easy to dive her. also she wont win most 1v1s shes a reallly really good team player.

    "ZeroCool is the best healer by far, playing as him it seems pretty ridiculous to be honest. I 2v4 with him often. His heal ability needs some tweaking...the "charge/recharge" part barely matters as it stands, I'd like to see it adjusted to where you have to actually consider when & how much to heal."

    hmm as for this i think we need to wait till we change him, i feel like its just that people are abit silly and dont know hey we should focus the guy out healing our damage. i want to see how he does in ranked. i feel like he will be hard focused. and hes a pretty weak guy so we will see how he balances out later i guess.

    Edit* i change my mind. even if he is hard focused i have come to the belief that you shouldnt be forced to have to focus the healer. cause it really is extremely hard to get a kill if a zero cool is there. if theres a kulev there, you can still kill other peeps before. if theres a zero there, its almost impos to kill them if the zero is good.

  • @Evade-This5965 I think this early in the game it would be a better idea to buff the weaker characters rather than Nerf. People like to feel powerful and hate it when it gets taken away. In my opinion at least, for the first balancing attempt. Then again I have no experience in game design or balancing just a player.

  • @EthanielRain

    nidhoggrs ult doesnt do that much dmg. compare it to all the other utls. and i mean look at it. it will only take away 1/4th of their HP. the good part about his ult is that it stuns them and allows your team to dmg them.

    also nidhoggr has a powerslide wich can work as his escape

    maeves weakness is dive. its easy to dive her. also she wont win most 1v1s shes a reallly really good team player.

    You're right about Nidhogger; I started playing him again & his ult doesn't do as much DMG as I remembered. It's pretty great anyway (as is he) 🙂

    I gotta disagree about Maev, though. Invisible with a speed boost & Cage have been pretty reliable escapes; and I honestly can't remember losing a 1v1 with her ever: I run her with the Siphon Life mods (+lifesteal, +dmg, -dmg to enemy/switch out the 3rd randomly for fun)...throwing in basic attacks when possible + Cage -> Siphon Life -> Vanish to let the CD's tick a bit, repeat until dead; for me, at least, she's better in 1v1 or 2v2 scenarios because it's less likely she'll get focused down. Worst case, Invisible out to go grab a DMG buff (using Siphon on it to refill your HP).

    With all that said, she isn't my main and I've only played her 15ish times. And I don't claim to have played against amazing players or to be one myself. Just that in my experience, she's amazing in 1v1 fights (and all of them, really). I just haven't experienced her having a weakness...Siphon Life is brutal, her passive is amazing, both her ults are useful/good, Cage & Invis are both great skills ❤ I guess you could say her weakness is getting stunned/froze & focused down immediately by the other team, but that's true of a lot of characters~

  • gizmo does not need a buff.

  • @EthanielRain Add that siphon life also gives her super armor while it's in progress, as a ranged, for some reason.

    Bad Maeves are easy to kill (this doesn't change the fact she's over-tuned, especially in a same skill scenario). Good Maeves are nightmares to commit on properly, due to that over-inflated kit.

    The same thing can be said for Cass, but the difference is Cass is an actual Advanced character. I love getting owned by great Cass players (at least it's justified due to the mechanical prowess needed).

    The only character in this game I personally consider overdone is Maeve.

  • Maeve isn't 0p whatsoever, tbh I'm betting I can 1v1 any Maeve with my Kulev and win 10/10 times...git gud. Although, I admit that Buttercup and Nidhoggr are a bit MonkaS. All I want and still waiting for is for Makutu buffs, I believe he has the potential to go far, but not in the current state...

  • @SoM3-R4Nd0M-NuB I have a 63.45% win rate (out of 20hours played as a solo que on dps), 1,500+ kills and 194 deaths (7.62 kills for every death). I can obviously kills Maeves. However, at my MMR good Maeve players and Cass players are very common. It's easy to distinguish which of those characters take more effort to get value out of. Especially considering I'm in the area where double healer is common place and almost every game has a Maeve in their roster due to the fact.

    It's not about getting good, nor is it being implied she's unkillable, it's about the fact she obviously has a borderline perfect kit with almost every possible option available to her for most offensive and escape situations.

  • Yes. Buff Makutu for god sake. He's such a cool character but he's completely gimped. Only one CC move that requires you to connect both to the enemy and the environment.

    Buttercup can just hit a few buttons and CC the heck out of someone and hold down a button for instant catch up speed AND regen to stick to things, Makutu has to ditch his survivability to catch up. They're in two completely different games.

  • @Fallenknight113 Agreed for the most part. Cass is ok. Her Super is pretty crazy but with only 660hp I’d say that a decent trade off. Not as unbalanced as Nid Hogger, El Bastard and Buttercup’s fat @$$.

    NID HOGGER isn’t even a tank and he has 950hp, PLUS crazy damage output! He has 2 moves that ignite players and chip away at your health regardless if he’s doing additional damage and ONE of them is just a basic move. Combo that with the rest of his abilities and his damage output and you’re looking at an almost 1 to 2 combo chain kill easily depending on the character. You can “Boomitar” which stuns, followed by “Shredder” which ignites, then follow up with the basic attack chain which at the end knocks you on your @$$ giving you plenty of time to catch back up only needing to land 1 or 2 more hits, if you’re a lower HP character, because all the wile “Shredder” has been chipping away at the health the whole time. And with 950hp that’s just RIDICULOUS! ALSO combo that with Zero Cools healing and he’s un-killable.

    Apply all that to El BASTARD and it’s the same situation! Only he’s the most OP character in the game as long as he’s doing damage. “Empower” alone makes him STUPID OP! Its a shield that boosts his HP to over 1300 by stealing health from enemies and as long as you’re doing damage to someone it will keep resetting to 1300 or not drop. Has a 14 second cool down but that doesn’t matter as long as you’re slashing someone the whole time cuz then you just hit it again and do it all over. His damage output is decent and at the end of the chain it sends you flying on your @$$ just like Nid Hogger giving him time to reset and follow up with another chain. Let’s put a cherry on top by having Zero Cool heal the whole time and he might as well have infinite “Unbreakable” which is one of his supers that makes him invincible for 5 seconds. Are you kidding me?! How can anyone NOT see that this Bastard NEEDS to be fixed?!

    Buttercup is just annoying AF! Her “Yank” ability has way too much range and you don’t even need to aim it. It doesn’t even make sense either. I know it’s a video game but it’s pretty much Scorpions grab move but with a saw blade tire? If anything it should be a ranged damage ability and not a grab. Her crowd control is too good in general. She has 1200hp and for a fat chick she’s a little too quick. Cmon.

    These 3 characters are broke and NEED to be fixed!!!

  • @Fallenknight113

    Thanks everyone for the detailed character discussion, we do read everything you post but we can't always reply.

    At the minute we're focussing on fixes and improvements to ensure every Bleeding Edge player has a positive experience but we are reading everything you tell us regarding character balancing!

    alt text

  • @Tetris229 Yes, please focus on fixes and improvements first. The stuttering, fps cap, and lag for pc users (and whomever else) should be one of the top priorities.

  • @Fallenknight113 said in All characters besides Buttercup, Cass, Daemon, Zerocool and Nidhoggr need to be buffed:

    Buttercup: is a mess due to having crowd control and insane damage this would be ok if she wasn't as insanely fast and tanky so I recommend either nerfing her mobility or her damage output.

    "Tanky" is Buttercup's thing though, so I suppose she'd either have to be a Damage character which would require buffing her B ability or her mobility would have to take a huge hit which goes against her character. A compromise I'd be willing to see is that she can have either the mobility or healing from Burl, but not both unless it uses up two seperate mod slots.

    I think the problem with Buttercup is that she's multiple character archetypes rolled into one. Control is fine, mobility is fine, tanking is fine, self-healing is (mostly) fine.... as one character? Not so much. Maybe when more characters that fulfil her roles are introduced nerfs can be more realistic.

    Cass: her ability to deal insane amount of damage with her ult blade dance she can destroy all non tanks health and with healers who are underpowered she can't be stopped.

    I've not seen enough enemy Cass players who use Blade Dance to comment on that, but the part about being with healers is obvious to me: you need to take out the healer. The same with most characters or competent healers. Cass is squishy on her own and her mobility encourages hit and run tactics. I've found when the team covers her exits she dies faster than any other character using that same tactic.

    Daemon: is balanced besides my one problem with him which is he has to much health combined with his mobility which allows him to escape almost any situation.

    I don't play Daemon so I'm not going to argue for or against this change. Anything I can say applies to all characters, which begins with "In the hands of a good player...."

    Zerocool: he outclasses all other healers and his healing beam is debatebly more powerful than Nikos life force ultimate which makes his healing the only good healing in the game.

    If it's true that Miko's Ult is weaker than ZC's heal then that absolutely needs to change, but I'd say buffing the Ult is more important than nerfing Zero Cool's heal. I suppose the problem then comes from how much waste in the form of overhealing comes from the Life Force ability, unless it slowly decays from the (now) extended max health of the receiver.

    Don't forget that Zero Cool is a single target healer. Miko and Kulev have area-of-effect (AoE) healing in some fashion with cooldowns. Personally I like that ZC players are high value targets and when they die the party starts to sweat.

    Nidhoggr: he deals way to much damage and when combined with Zerocool he's basically unkillable his ride the lightning ability affects way to much space around him and leads to him being able to stop a while team from moving instantly.

    When combined with Zero Cool any character is virtually unstoppable unless all four are giving their undivided single-target-ability attention to said character. Personally I've never had problems with Nidhoggr unless I've been cornered by other, much faster basic attacking characters. I've found ranged characters are the best foil to his slow but heavy hitting melee attacks.

    There's some good feedback there though, I'll look into the characters you list and see if I can agree or find other points of contention. ^^