MAEVE addressed once and for all...
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@f-i-x-e-r-1138 said in MAEVE addressed once and for all...:
For the love of god everyone needs to stop bitching about Maeve!!!***
This doesn't tell me that what I'm about to hear comes from a place of logic and rationality, rather heated emotions and poor experiences.
I see everyone’s problem with Maeve... but not really. I mean Jesus!
There's no need to get this riled up. Calm yourself, we all want to have fun and get along. ^^
I think people’s only REAL problem is that they just don’t like her.
I for one like Maeve as an opponent. I can't play her to save my life, but I like her mechanics enough. All I really want is a bit more reactability to her mechanics, such as the cage and homing bomb.
Be honest you sorry sack of suds.
This doesn't help anyone's perception of the community as a whole, least of all Maeve players.
Everyone acts like she’s OP and “broken” but just cuz you might find her “annoying” doesn’t mean she’s broken.
I agree that her annoyance doesn't make her broken. Correlation is not causation, but I do see a correlation.
She’s not a 1v1 beast like Butterbitch, Bastard or Nid Hogger
How very droll.
She has some legit abilities and you definitely have to watch out for her but if she’s in a 1v1 situation with any of those 3 said characters and she DOESN’T have her super OR manage to get (hobble) away... she’s f@#%ed.
I suppose that applies to any character though - if they don't have [x, y and z] they will fail. Tanks might not have that problem though. Even so, 1v1 shouldn't be happening and that isn't a mark of being over nor underpowered.
Cmon. When you hit her she flinches/gets caught in the attack chain, unlike other REAL broken characters who DON’T flinch when attacked and can just fight back like you’re just standing there with your hands in your pants.
Could you name those "real" broken characters? There's quite a few I can think of that are easily caught in the attack chain if one doesn't have the stamina to dodge or leap out of the way.
Her cage only last for LITERALLY 2 seconds... cry me a river!
That's an explanation, not an excuse. If you can tell me the criticisms against the cage ability and then defend your position, that's much more useful.
It’s not long AT ALL. Just long enough for her to finish you off IF you’re playing her right!
I concur. I reckon most of the feedback regarding any character's balancing is countered by "if you're playing them right", which sadly a lot of people (myself included) don't.
She’s not fast and can be easily out ran.
Indeed. The one thing she has is control; if people aren't saving their cooldowns to widen the gap between herself and other players (she is ranged after all) that's on them, not Maeve or any other character.
Her “TAT” Super is legit but it’s not a one hit kill by any means.
Not to my knowledge it isn't a one hit kill anyway. As long as it's not travelling through walls I'm fine with it. If it does, then that I'd want to be looked at (though that begs the question of which other abilities can, such as Buttercup's Whip Lash or Nidhoggr's Ride the Lightning, not to mention if stopping the clipping can be done).
Her other super sucks really.
I've not seen anyone use this enough, but being able to teleport and stun seems like a very good ability to bring to the table.
Her “Siphon Life” ability is just an another ability. Not like it drains your health completely in a couple seconds and fully heals herself.
I concur. I'm sure Maeve players could reasonably discuss amongst themselves if it is too much or too little and go from there.
Her main ”Zap” attack is not power WHAT SO EVER, unlike other broken characters.
This would be easier to argue if Ninja Theory could show the actual damage numbers and a working DPS meter. Until then I can't say that she's any more or less powerful than those so called "other broken characters".
She only has 700hp and lastly yes, she can vanish... but whoop de f@#%ing doo!
Indeed. You could phrase it a bit more diplomatically than that though.
It’s not for that long (literally 2 seconds like her cage, unless modded) and Daemon can do the SAME THING, but I don’t see too many people bitching about that.
I'm with you on that. Perhaps it's because Daemon is the poster child of the game, but that's perhaps too cynical a view.
And he can turn nearly completely invisible and just goal tend on point and there’s not shit you can do about it, even if you know he’s there, until he decides to attack you.
Like Maeve can, the difference being the amount of time. I suppose Daemon's excused for being a melee character, but he also has 3 Stamina and a longer(?) sleep. I'd like to hear the arguments for and against his current level of power in other threads.
But I am focusing more on a 1v1 scenario here.
You were right: it shouldn't need to be said. Why is this being addressed?
Because once again, if you’re Maeve in a 1v1 against any of the 3 broked characters mentioned earlier (with FULL health)
You didn't mention the characters, unless you mean Buttercup, El Bastardo and Nidhoggr? In which case, keep them under control and stay at range. Of course you're going to lose in a 1v1 against them otherwise.
and you DON’T have your super you might as well put the stick down and walk away.
Or don't go into 1v1s. If by "put the stick down and walk away" means changing a character to better suit the opposing team, then one might as well do that too.
Yes there are those situations where maybe you (Maeve) HAVE your super ready to go and come across one of them tanks/broken characters in a 1v1 and you happen to get it off... THEN yea it’s possible to come out of that scenario alive. But that goes for ALL characters and it’s not like that’s the case every time. Nobody has their super rocking for EVERY single battle. And if you DON’T get it off then you’re still f@#%ed.
Yup.
If anything Maeve could be BUFFED just a bit. More health or a second or 2 longer on some abilities or something.
I'm not aware of her mods, but I think adding this to her mod selection could be a decent compromise between permanent additions and not doing anything.
I’m talking just some inflation points here to combat the broken characters.
Why not talk about the broken characters instead? Inflation isn't a good thing in this sense.
Other than that she’s perfect ya whiny bitches. No fix needed!
This doesn't help anyone, least of all Ninja Theory.
Especially if the other characters get nerfed the way they SHOULD. Just sit back and enjoy your ACTUAL broken characters while you still got em and take an ass whoopin from Maeve like a man.
Again, please tell us about these other broken characters.
I get you're passionate about the state of Maeve, I agree she gets a lot of flak and a lot of it is unnecessary. But you could do with being a bit more constructive. You throw around accusations and hurl insults, and unless it's en masse it's usually wholly ignored by developers and community ambassadors. You owe it to yourself more than anyone to present a better case than you have here. ^^
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@f-i-x-e-r-1138 I played her one single game and rolled on the enemy team, she's ultra easy to play, cage the squishy and siphon life him and he's already dead, and you get all your cooldowns back. Also her vanish is the easiest escape to pull off, she's soooo damn easy to play and ultra hard to contest. Apart from that 2 seconds can win or lose you a fight in a multiplayer game. This comment gives me overwatch forums entitled vibes.
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@f-i-x-e-r-1138 You're literally just making yourself sound like a gringy whiny Maeve main who doesn't want a nerf. Maeve is OP and everyone knows it, her cage is the best stun in the game, and she has better range and damage than almost every other character. You btought up zero legit arguements.
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Let's make a check list of all of Maeve's abilities.
Cage - Disables movement completely. Basically immediate animation with barely a fraction of a second to react (unlike Bastardo's Leap). Basically renders any form of stealth or parry while inside 100% fruitless.
Cage Weakness - Nothing.
Siphon Life - Absolutely ridiculous range. Huge Damage. Health Restoration. Super Armor (ON A RANGED DPS).
Siphon Life Weakness - Stunning abilities only and nothing else. Melee attacks or combos do nothing, especially if the Maeve spams the jump button causing most of your attacks to miss (since she has super armor your combos are meaningless).
Vanish - Invisibility. Invincibility (lol so she gets both). Movement speed increase. Literally the perfect escape tool.
Vanish - Weakness. Can't attack. But who cares, that's not the point of it. It's an escape.
Toil and Trouble - Should basically be considered a one-shot to whoever it hits. Auto tracking and no range limitation. If it's canceled successfully she still gets to keep the ult she failed to use within the active animation. So just cast it again in a few seconds, since your opponent was skilled enough to stop you, you deserve to use your ult again.
Toil and Trouble Weakness - Line of Sight. That's it. Because disrupting the ult means nothing.
Passive - Full cooldown resets on a kill (Yup this is balanced because it's so hard to do on a class designed to kill things. Sarcasm by the way, it's absolutely broken). Has a mod dedicated to giving you 15% ult charge each time it procs. So every other character who kills get scrap (nothing) but Maeve can get 15% ult charge for her finishing blows while being designed to do exactly that?
I called it since the beginning that Maeve was broken, from the first day she was shown off on Stream. Almost all the devs playing saying ''Maeve is my favorite character''. Because of course a highly advanced super skill based character can easily be picked up by the average joe and give immediate value.
This is exactly why Maeve needs her ''advanced'' status removed, or get put in a position where her actions have consequences, period. It's almost baffling anyone even plays Gizmo (a ranged character that can actually be punished by melee combat, as she should be).
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@f-i-x-e-r-1138 SIPHON LIFE takes half of most heroes life bars! Lol! I just used her in training mode. She’s super strong as a ranged character. Personally I’d say she’s OP considering all things but they just need to tone her down a bit, not too much cuz all characters should be viable, just not OP.
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@f-i-x-e-r-1138 wow. Just wow. I'm actually not returning to the game until she is nerfed. She's absolutely broken I don't understand how anyone can sit here and claim she's not.
Dude. She has ability resets. She has an ability that makes her unkillable AND invisible, and she has a lifesteal attack that straight up melts people. What are we not understanding here, that's too much. She's a dps, she should not have that much utility + straight damage. With her in the games current state I finish upwards of 20 kills a game with her. It's not fun. I'm not having fun using her, or even playing against her.
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@CAPO-9 for some reason this guy comes off as the type of person who considers buying hacks or throws the game when they aren't winning. I agree with your points
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Maeve is one of the only counters we have to dive in this game. The people complaining probably just play Daemon, Nid, Bastardo, etc and are mad they can’t just jump the healer every second. Of course she’s going to be annoying to play against as these people, she’s your counter. If anything, change the way she interacts with non-divers. Make it so the cage only gets a partial refund or no refund on kill. So if she chooses to go for their back line, she won’t have it again to take divers off her team.
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@HashtagRaver said in MAEVE addressed once and for all...:
Maeve is one of the only counters we have to dive in this game. The people complaining probably just play Daemon, Nid, Bastardo, etc and are mad they can’t just jump the healer every second. Of course she’s going to be annoying to play against as these people, she’s your counter. If anything, change the way she interacts with non-divers. Make it so the cage only gets a partial refund or no refund on kill. So if she chooses to go for their back line, she won’t have it again to take divers off her team.
As someone with a decent chunk of time with a reasonable w/r and kd on Daemon, I disagree she counters him, in fact he counters her in a way, and I find her easy to deal with. That's not saying she isn't a priority target for me though, in fact her, Gizmo and Zero are my top 3 priorities. But how you all ask? It's simple, really.
Stealth is the only ability in the game that completely denies siphon. Sure, Miko's dome stops the dmg/lifesteal, but Maeve can keep channelling and walk through it, all while keep her super armour. I'm not counting supers here either, just base kits, as that is what you will have for all fights.
So, I'm Daemon, I see and engage on Maeve, I eat the cage, on purpose, and she hits the siphon button. How could I possibly win this, being stuck in this situation? Stealth. The very moment she lands siphon, I hit stealth, she does no damage, has no lifesteal, and no longer has her super armour. Cage drops, I cut her up, she vanishes. Chasing is a guessing game, but can be done, as you can finish her before her siphon comes back off cd, and even if it does she will be so low that she will simply die before sustaining enough through lifesteal.
Even if she knocks you out of stealth after cage, you're still healthy, and the cage is about to drop, allowing you to spin strike her in the face! When she vanishes and dips, a chase is not always the right call, and a smart Maeve will look to go to her team for support, which is probably where you don't want to be. Honestly just pressuring her to vanish is fine, as the cooldown is really long, and if she reappears in the team fight, she is an easy pick for your team to burst down, so feel free to spam ping her until they get the message
If she has damage buff, you either need to match it, have Shadow Strike ready for the 2nd siphon, or simply avoid engaging her alone, as she will beat you if you cannot match the buff or don't have SS ready. Try to save shurikens for after vanish if you are in the situation to chase, as that will help finish her off faster when her vanish is down, and can also be used to dismount her if you catch her trying to mount out of melee range. Although don't be scared to shuriken in the initial engagement, combo cancelling with it is pretty crucial on Daemon imo. If she vanishes without the increased time mod, then it's only 2 seconds, so easy to track her down and finish her if so.
Obviously this isn't going to work 100% of the time, but generally Maeve cannot 1v1 my Daemon, not saying I'm the best out there, but certainly not the worst
Nid I also find can deal with Maeve quite well, just wait for siphon and axe it, don't axe before. Bastardo can stun her siphon, but I feel he isn't as well suited for pressuring her as Daemon or Nid.
Sorry for the long post, just felt like adding my thoughts to the conversation, and ultimately yes she does have a pretty solid kit, but is not overpowered and is in fact pretty easy to force out of a fight. Anyone can actually do it, just to me it seems Daemon is one of the best to, and also I find Nid to deal with her quite well, but has less chase/burst potential. If you aren't running either character in your team, that's fine also, just focus her until Vanish pops, she'll probably be low so looking to run or find her healer, so you just focus another target down, as it should now be 4v3
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Cage - Disables movement completely. Basically immediate animation with barely a fraction of a second to react (unlike Bastardo's Leap). Basically renders any form of stealth or parry while inside 100% fruitless.
Cage Weakness - Nothing.
Siphon Life - Absolutely ridiculous range. Huge Damage. Health Restoration. Super Armor (ON A RANGED DPS).
Siphon Life Weakness - Stunning abilities only and nothing else. Melee attacks or combos do nothing, especially if the Maeve spams the jump button causing most of your attacks to miss (since she has super armor your combos are meaningless).
Vanish - Invisibility. Invincibility (lol so she gets both). Movement speed increase. Literally the perfect escape tool.
Vanish - Weakness. Can't attack. But who cares, that's not the point of it. It's an escape.
Toil and Trouble - Should basically be considered a one-shot to whoever it hits. Auto tracking and no range limitation. If it's canceled successfully she still gets to keep the ult she failed to use within the active animation. So just cast it again in a few seconds, since your opponent was skilled enough to stop you, you deserve to use your ult again.
Toil and Trouble Weakness - Line of Sight. That's it. Because disrupting the ult means nothing.
Siphon life actually doesn't have very long range without a the mod to increase it. Moving out of its range will break it. Speed increase on vanish is also only when modded. Toil and trouble's weakness is its long cast-time and slow movement, making it difficult to actually hit with. It doesn't 1 hit anyone(i haven't tried it modded) it does ~60-70% damage to most dps and support, and 50% or less to tanks.
I agree with @RageKrom that daemon is a decent choice to take out a Maeve. I don't really agree with everyone that said nid is, though. I've 1v1'd so many nids as Maeve at this point, i basically have it down to a science.
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She does high damage
She can burst damage
She can drain
She has easy to use CC
She has an escape ability
I mean, pick two or three, but not all of them. She is comically overpowered.
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@Thug-sleazy Maeves who have a hard time vs Nid don't jump the axe or cage way to close so they get hit/burned by him.
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Daemon Cloak. Timed right it can dodge the cage auto lock
Gizmo Nade
Nid Axe toss
Miko Freeze can stop her.
Some characters can dodge the cage but you got to actually pay attention because not all characters have the same dodge distances/speed.
