This game needs more aiming/skill requirement
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@RageKrom said in This game needs more aiming/skill requirement:
@The-Kron said in This game needs more aiming/skill requirement:
You may find the game passive but those of us who hanker after arcade style games this is the closest thing we've got to a Powerstone style game in twenty years.
Free aim would add absolutely nothing to this other than giving the melee focused characters a huge advantage. The game is wonderfully balanced as it is. It's not trying to be Smite or Overwatch, Let it be it's own thing.
This. Right here. 100% agree. And as someone said before, if you want to have to aim, go play OW
That advice is not productive because you are telling me to do something that I already do
I obviously know that I can play other games if I want to aim, that’s not the point. The point is that I want to play THIS game more because I like the concept and characters and many of the gameplay elements, but this one major aspect is preventing my desire to play
Rather than saying forget this game I’m moving on, I am instead giving them feedback and telling them how they could change the game in order to get me to play more (and potentially many others as well)
In the current situation yes I am playing other games and I will continue to do so. I am hoping however that they will give me a good reason to come back and start playing BE again
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@Tetris229 said in This game needs more aiming/skill requirement:
Thanks for taking the time to discuss the game and your thoughts on the core mechanics, we definitely find that skill comes in to play with positioning and knowing what abilities to use and when.
Look forward to reading more of what players have to say on this topic!
I agree that the game takes skill in regards to those areas of positioning, abilities and teamwork etc. I am not saying that it takes no skill I just feel that it doesn’t require enough.
The act of shooting as a ranged character is what you do to inflict the vast majority of your damage, to have the thing you’re doing most often be an automatic and passive experience feels unengaging to me
After all, fps and battle royale are the most popular genres in gaming. And when you boil them down to their most basic elements, those games come down to aiming a weapon and shooting your opponents.
Without the aiming part, nobody would play them anymore because it would be too easy everyone would essentially be hacking and guaranteed to hit all their shots
So I feel that having the skill required to accurately aim at your target provides another level of fun and engagement that this game currently does not have
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Ok, I gotta ask, as you keep advocating so much for an unnecessary feature. What level are you in Bleeding Edge? Do you play on PC or console? And what's so passive about this game, as it's pretty engaging, sometimes chaotic, and a whole lotta fun.
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@RageKrom said in This game needs more aiming/skill requirement:
Ok, I gotta ask, as you keep advocating so much for an unnecessary feature. What level are you in Bleeding Edge? Do you play on PC or console? And what's so passive about this game, as it's pretty engaging, sometimes chaotic, and a whole lotta fun.
I explained very clearly what’s passive about the experience as a ranged character, if you missed it go back to my op. I also did not say the whole game, melee heroes feel fine to me it’s only ranged ones that I believe should get this change.
Although if they do implement this system and melee becomes too strong then they could simply do it to the melee heroes as well for balance
I am level 20, my playtime is 1 day 3 hours 21 minutes. I play on xbox, and I played both betas but was limited by the lag/performance issues at the time. I was very excited for this game I gave it a very fair chance and put in the time to learn it and be good at it. I even filled out 2 microsoft surveys about it, one after each of the betas
So yes I am invested in this game and I really want to see it do well. But like I said i played it less and less after launch and now I’m barely playing it at all. And the aiming issue I presented is by far the biggest reason why
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I think this is an opinion where people can agree to disagree. I see valid points brought up from both sides of the argument, but I strongly side with having a lock on system. The way the characters are balance, I've never felt like I was ever unfairly killed by a ranged character. When they do kill me, I recognize that it's typically due to poor positioning, getting teamed up against, or poorly misjudging my health bar before entering battles. When I play as a ranged character. I always feel engaged, because I'm focusing on positioning, the timing of my abilities, and the most underused strategy, focusing on who to target and when to re-target.
I don't believe this point was brought up: if there was free aim in this game, wouldn't there be a bunch of bullet spraying into combat groups? I bet that situation would come up constantly, and that type of gameplay sounds unengaging to me.
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I'm going to put this the nicest way possible. I am not trying to come across as being pretentious or some sort of know-it-all.
Lock on is here to stay.
Ranged basic attacks will always home.
If that bothers you so much that you feel the need to beg the developers to change the game for you then you need to find a different game.I'm sorry but the sooner you come to peace with these facts the better. Ranged heroes are easily countered and only in the case of Maeve's cage do I think the ranged heroes need some adjustments
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@thetruepilliger said in This game needs more aiming/skill requirement:
I'm going to put this the nicest way possible. I am not trying to come across as being pretentious or some sort of know-it-all.
Lock on is here to stay.
Ranged basic attacks will always home.
If that bothers you so much that you feel the need to beg the developers to change the game for you then you need to find a different game.I'm sorry but the sooner you come to peace with these facts the better. Ranged heroes are easily countered and only in the case of Maeve's cage do I think the ranged heroes need some adjustments
^ This. As much as I would have preferred if this game worked on a more skill based targeting system, I can't deny that managing the lock-on has really grown on me. It has it's own skill requirement to switch targets or lock-on/off on the fly.
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@thetruepilliger said in This game needs more aiming/skill requirement:
I'm going to put this the nicest way possible. I am not trying to come across as being pretentious or some sort of know-it-all.
Lock on is here to stay.
Ranged basic attacks will always home.
If that bothers you so much that you feel the need to beg the developers to change the game for you then you need to find a different game.I'm sorry but the sooner you come to peace with these facts the better. Ranged heroes are easily countered and only in the case of Maeve's cage do I think the ranged heroes need some adjustments
I think you need to look up the definition of beg because you clearly don’t know what it means if you are applying it to this situation
I am suggesting ideas and providing feedback on how i believe they can improve their game. If you call that begging then you have a serious problem with exaggeration or you just don’t know what it means.
Despite your apparent efforts to try and not come across as pretentious you have managed to do so regardless, which i suppose says something about you.
Ranged heroes being easily countered has nothing to do with this topic so it’s pointless to even bring it up. I never said ranged heroes are op or that an aiming system should be added in order to adjust their power level
If that’s what you got out of my post then you have another problem
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@MisfitBanjax said in This game needs more aiming/skill requirement:
@thetruepilliger said in This game needs more aiming/skill requirement:
I'm going to put this the nicest way possible. I am not trying to come across as being pretentious or some sort of know-it-all.
Lock on is here to stay.
Ranged basic attacks will always home.
If that bothers you so much that you feel the need to beg the developers to change the game for you then you need to find a different game.I'm sorry but the sooner you come to peace with these facts the better. Ranged heroes are easily countered and only in the case of Maeve's cage do I think the ranged heroes need some adjustments
^ This. As much as I would have preferred if this game worked on a more skill based targeting system, I can't deny that managing the lock-on has really grown on me. It has it's own skill requirement to switch targets or lock-on/off on the fly.
Ok those are not really “skills” let’s be honest. Yes you do have to make an easy decision and push a button to switch to a new target or lock off but come on
The amount of skill required there is extremely minimal practically zero when compared to actually having to aim and hit your targets and stay aimed at them manually
You said it yourself you “would have preferred a more skill based targeting system” and I believe many others would as well
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@MoistAtom6 said in This game needs more aiming/skill requirement:
I think this is an opinion where people can agree to disagree. I see valid points brought up from both sides of the argument, but I strongly side with having a lock on system. The way the characters are balance, I've never felt like I was ever unfairly killed by a ranged character. When they do kill me, I recognize that it's typically due to poor positioning, getting teamed up against, or poorly misjudging my health bar before entering battles. When I play as a ranged character. I always feel engaged, because I'm focusing on positioning, the timing of my abilities, and the most underused strategy, focusing on who to target and when to re-target.
I don't believe this point was brought up: if there was free aim in this game, wouldn't there be a bunch of bullet spraying into combat groups? I bet that situation would come up constantly, and that type of gameplay sounds unengaging to me.
This has nothing to do with balance I am not at all suggesting this idea because I think ranged heroes are too strong. It is simply about engagement and higher skill ceiling and more fun.
Those things you mentioned positioning, ability timing etc those are skills found in other similar games (overwatch, smite) but in addition to those skills you actually need to aim as well in all the other games which makes them more fun because of it
So I’m not saying playing ranged characters takes no skill, it just doesn’t take enough because it is missing a crucial component which is manually aiming at your target. The act of locking onto and hitting a target with these fighters takes no skill and is way too easy you literally cannot miss unless you are just out of range
I don’t see any issue with bullet spraying. If they make this change ranged fighters should still be able to hit only one target like they do now. Which means that if you want to randomly spray into a group you are still only damaging one person at a time so spraying doesn’t pay off because your damage isn’t concentrated and you are spreading it out across multiple targets which means they are all more likely to stay alive than if you had just focused on one target
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@ShadoWawker said in This game needs more aiming/skill requirement:
@MisfitBanjax said in This game needs more aiming/skill requirement:
@thetruepilliger said in This game needs more aiming/skill requirement:
I'm going to put this the nicest way possible. I am not trying to come across as being pretentious or some sort of know-it-all.
Lock on is here to stay.
Ranged basic attacks will always home.
If that bothers you so much that you feel the need to beg the developers to change the game for you then you need to find a different game.I'm sorry but the sooner you come to peace with these facts the better. Ranged heroes are easily countered and only in the case of Maeve's cage do I think the ranged heroes need some adjustments
^ This. As much as I would have preferred if this game worked on a more skill based targeting system, I can't deny that managing the lock-on has really grown on me. It has it's own skill requirement to switch targets or lock-on/off on the fly.
Ok those are not really “skills” let’s be honest. Yes you do have to make an easy decision and push a button to switch to a new target or lock off but come on
The amount of skill required there is extremely minimal practically zero when compared to actually having to aim and hit your targets and stay aimed at them manually
You said it yourself you “would have preferred a more skill based targeting system” and I believe many others would as well
Yeah, the main point is that the game is as it is when it comes to targeting and we should just accept that since it's such a core mechanic. Trying to get them to change it is probably a waste of energy. Besides, the lock-on system is hardly ruining the game so it's really not a big deal. At least there's Project Stamina in the works and that will satisfy the need for a brawler game like this to have more skill-based targeting. Look it up if you haven't already!
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@ShadoWawker Eliminating lock on is not a good idea. Like these people have said, it's what makes this game different. I think you just need some tips on how to avoid ranged characters. Try this:
When you're being chased by Maeve or Cass, or Gizmo, or Mekko, or even Kulev, try hugging the wall around corners. If you break their line of fire, they can't shoot through walls.
Use jump pads to break line of fire, then quickly jump back down. Repeat. This method is also wonderful for escaping melee characters. They can't attack you from a different level, so just treat it like a game of tag. Eventually, they'll leave you alone if you avoid them long enough. I've seen it.
If there is a pillar like in Aquaducts near the health spawn, play ring around the rosy with them. It's so funny watching them yet try to catch you haha
Most importantly though, the first thing you should do is always stay out of their range. That means anticipating their approach towards you BEFORE they get you in range. It you always wait till they attack you first before you start playing defensively, they're always going to get the drop on you.
Last thing, escaping as Daemon from ranged characters is tricky. Using stealth doesn't always guarantee an escape if you move in the same direction. You gotta like dodge first then stealth in the opposite direction. If you find yourself with a wasted stealth, you better start running towards a wall haha
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@ShadoWawker Dude, what’s it gunna take for this to sink in?! The game is what it is! And HOW it is makes it WHAT it is and sets it apart from everything else. It’s not this game or that game, it’s BLEEDING EDGE. You’re pretty much telling the people that made the game “Ya know I like the game but you should have made it this way cuz it’s not good enough.” Stop whining and play something else. If you want a challenge then play blind folded. Hold the controller upside down. Or become a developer and make your own game. Then we can nag YOU on how it should have been built. Jesus!
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@MisfitBanjax said in This game needs more aiming/skill requirement:
@ShadoWawker said in This game needs more aiming/skill requirement:
@MisfitBanjax said in This game needs more aiming/skill requirement:
@thetruepilliger said in This game needs more aiming/skill requirement:
I'm going to put this the nicest way possible. I am not trying to come across as being pretentious or some sort of know-it-all.
Lock on is here to stay.
Ranged basic attacks will always home.
If that bothers you so much that you feel the need to beg the developers to change the game for you then you need to find a different game.I'm sorry but the sooner you come to peace with these facts the better. Ranged heroes are easily countered and only in the case of Maeve's cage do I think the ranged heroes need some adjustments
^ This. As much as I would have preferred if this game worked on a more skill based targeting system, I can't deny that managing the lock-on has really grown on me. It has it's own skill requirement to switch targets or lock-on/off on the fly.
Ok those are not really “skills” let’s be honest. Yes you do have to make an easy decision and push a button to switch to a new target or lock off but come on
The amount of skill required there is extremely minimal practically zero when compared to actually having to aim and hit your targets and stay aimed at them manually
You said it yourself you “would have preferred a more skill based targeting system” and I believe many others would as well
Yeah, the main point is that the game is as it is when it comes to targeting and we should just accept that since it's such a core mechanic. Trying to get them to change it is probably a waste of energy. Besides, the lock-on system is hardly ruining the game so it's really not a big deal. At least there's Project Stamina in the works and that will satisfy the need for a brawler game like this to have more skill-based targeting. Look it up if you haven't already!
Yea it could be a waste of energy but on the off chance that they do listen I thought it would be worth it anyways to try and convince them because to me it’s very clear. Imo it is ruining the game so I think it’s a necessary change.
I am not surprised that most people on here disagree with me because it is safe to assume the people who post on the forums are the most dedicated fans of the game and already enjoy the experience. I’m asking the developers to consider the overall playerbase and the wider audience of people which is the most important thing, especially people who are trying it for the first time or coming back to it to see if it’s improved
I can guarantee the number one problem they have is player retention. Just look at the numbers on steam, an incredibly large drop in player count to where it’s at currently. I’m sure the story is the same on xbox, as this game is not even in the top FIFTY most played games according to the xbox games store which is a very bad sign for a multiplayer game that only costs 30$ and is on xbox games pass which has over ten million subscribers
I’m not saying all this to bash the game as i do like many aspects of it, but my point is that they clearly got something major wrong and it’s turning people away, it’s making them not want to play this game. Something is causing the very low player retention rate, and I believe the lack of a real targeting system is the number one issue.
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@ShadoWawker while I agree, I do think that several adjustments would have to be made to compensate. IE damage would most likely need to be increased for projectiles at least I think so. The 3rd person and all makes for some awkward aiming I think. Then you run into another problem, this game is shopped as more "Melee focused" you know if a great twitch skill player gets good enough with higher damage that will definitely change.
Faster speeds for melee DPS in other words. Healing would also become a super pain in the ass to do. Navigating ZC and actually having to aim? Would Maeves Siphon need aiming? There would need to be a lot of balancing addressed. Some of the stuns would all need to be tweaked or they will become much less useful.
I'm sort of rambling because I'm pretty new to the genre. I heard Smite is similar to this but it's still more projectile no?
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@I-WORSTPLAYER-I First of all, Gigantic nailed it when it came to 3rd person aiming imo. It would be interesting if BE adapted aiming to the way they did it. Regardless, the lock-on really isn't that bad. AT least no one is really kicking themselves for missing a Maeve cage or whatever. If they don't get someone it's because the enemy reacted well enough to evade. I think it's a good system and a refreshingly different one.
But seriously? Increase projectile damage?! Ranged attacks have some of the fastest attack rates in the game. Not to mention that typically you can poke someone for amazing damage from a safe distance as is. The low damage per shot is a purposeful balancing requirement for those reasons.
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Never played it. I just know there would be helluva a lot of people missing more often without lock on LOL thusly that thought, but it's whatever lockon is here to stay as I don't think they'd even want to bother changing it at this point. You need to realize that adding more skill requirement needs to be rewarded. People don't want to work harder for low rewards, they want to be aiming gods, and carry somewhat.
Just like there's a few really good melee players out here that parry and all that good shit. (on a decent connection anyway)
