My 2 cents on the overall game balance.
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While this game is a blast to play it has some issues:
Maeve: Cage and siphon life combo is busted, her cage is too oppressing since it has a very small cool down, her passive schadenfreude doesn't help, for that sole reason I don't think she's an advanced character to use.
Daemon: He still has his infinite stealth mod, while it can be fun to use, it's nearly impossible to counter in a lock-on game heavily designed around melee combat. What makes it busted is that he can contest objectives and deliver power cells while invisible, and he pops instantly out of nowhere to burst you down. I wish he had a decloaking animation.
Cass: While cass during the first beta was almost useless now she became a little bit too strong her rake damage being buffed and still having a lot of mobility, makes her a nightmare for supports.
Gizmo: In every game I played there was a gizmo, she has too much mobility for a long range dps and gets out of fights extremely easily whenever she sees someone going after her, then settlessomewhere else and starts shooting all over again. She's also always top damage. While she has deaemon as her counter, he's the only one since cass, gets obliterated by her turrets and gizmo at the same time.
Nidhogger: Even if he's extremely bursty he's slow just enough to be balanced.
Miko: Good character nothing to say, even if her double freeze mod could be very deadly.
Zerocool: Well balanced if between the right hands, but really lacks self-defence and his defrag passive doesn't regenerate health fast esnough.
Kulev: Well balanced even though his shields can get a little bit too annoying.
Makutu: While he was an aweful tank during the first beta, he became very decent in this one, he has great combos, and it feels like he can finally be useful to his team.
El Bastardo: I think that he has too much sustain, even nidhogger, the tank buster himself can't really deal with him, other than that I don't have other issues with him.
Buttercup: The only thing I find busted about her is her yank, she can hook squishies in the backline and bring them to her teammates who can shred you in a matter of seconds, and the mod that increases the range of the yank is outright busted.
Am I the only one who thinks that she should have another ability instead of that one. Maybe one where she throws her front wheel and it goes spinning to the target and pushes them back while still spinning when it's hitting them.Mekko:???
These are my two cents on the characters, I might be biased on some of my opinions, please discuss these with me.
Other than that I'm having characters poping up, it feels like there's no animations (xbox player), which can also make cass really annoying to deal with. No I don't have connection problems, every other multi player game I play works perfectly fine.
One more feature:
-What if the characters below 20% of their health would walk slower making chasing fighters around less of a problem, since everything is so melee centered.
These are just my opinions, they're not facts, thank you.
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Always interesting to see opinions on Fighters, biased or not, we're all a little biased towards our personal experiences anyway!
Maeve: Agree, it's all to do with her Cage IMO. It all comes down to the combination of 4 things - the RATE in which she can fire them out of the sky (exemplified by Schadenfreude), the IMPACT is has by immobilising an enemy with no way to escape & essentially becoming an open static target for ~2 seconds, the EASE in which it takes to pull off meaning as long as you're in medium proximity nothing will stop you from Caging, and the LACK OF COUNTER, you cannot avoid taking damage once inside unless you are Maeve and you Vanish, plus it isn't easy to dodge at all despite what some people say. You can dodge right on the audio cue or right on the visual cue that appears on the floor, but it will still catch you at the end of your evade. You can't evade mid-air either. You literally have to be telepathic and predict when a Maeve is just about to drop her Cage and evade a split second before she even presses the button to drop it in order to dodge it. It's even more difficult in a chaotic team fight.
Daemon: Again I agree. His infinite stealth mod drives me insane in Power Cells. I've lost over a DOZEN games where a Daemon has hoarded 30+ cells, sat in the corner of the map invisible until 2 points open, and dropped in at the uncontested one, ultimately finishing the match with less than 2000 damage. It feels worse every time it happens to me now. It's no different to being able to hoard the cells and sit in spawn which was changed before the Alpha was even released.
Cass: I think she's in a good spot now personally. The Rake damage increase was a great change. Cass players are more inclined to Swoop into melee proximity now as the Rake has the damage to match the risk vs reward, whereas before I feel like she did enough damage just sat on the outskirts which I don't think was intended to be how she should be played.
Makutu: He's massively grown on me too. I played a lot of him in the 2nd Beta and had a lot of success. He's absolutely brilliant at holding Capture Points in Objective Control. Makutu and Miko is an incredibly beefy core. I've had many matches where I've done 15k+ healing as Makutu so I really think he is a better option than double healer meta that a lot of people found frustrating due to his added versatile kit.
Buttercup: Hook into Oil Slick is the 2nd best combo to Maeve's Cage & Siphon IMO. Deadly.
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@x-AmberPrice
with maeves cage i dont think you can evade it, but you can use an ability to dodge it. i think so anyways.
my problem with daemons invis is that you can see and hear when hes invis but cant hit him. the only time im able to hit him is with a ranged character, but if you are a mele character and you see him invis, its super hard to actually hit him cause it wont let you lock on and you cant really move close without him avoiding you.
"15k+ healing"
15K HEALING WTF dude i swear none of my healers would every get that much healing done, is this an exaggeration or are you serious? if so what mods are you using because that is insane.overall i think all the characters are OP, but since they are all OP they are exactly where they should be, because its ballanced. lol well nah i just think its too early to really tell. we dont really see the stats. im sure the devs will be looking at avg dmg, health and kd stats or watever with each character to truly determine if some characters are op. plus i guess ranked mode will help determine what characters are really op
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I don't even think there's many abilities you can use to evade her Cage either. I know Cass's Swoop still catches you for example.
Yes I agree 100%, it's frustrating when you actually know where a Daemon is but you can't lock onto him therefore you can't hit him with basic attacks. It would be broken if you could lock onto him whilst he was invisible though so I've got no idea how to change that!
I obviously didn't screenshot every game but I've got 2 below just for example. He's just a giant lump. You see he can literally outputs similar healing to ZC. I can't remember the exact names of the Mods but they were focused towards healing and survivability. I will let you know when I can check again!
Screenshot 1 - just sit on the point!
Screenshot 2 - play the OBJ!Honestly I agree with that last statement. They are all really good in their own right, and in the right team set up they can have the potential to cause massive harm.
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@x-AmberPrice
For the daemon invis what they can do is either give him a cameleon looking like invis, when you can see the environment distord around his hitbox, I don't think it's a great idea though.
What would be great is limit his invis to 6 or 7 seconds and replace his unlimited invis mod by another one, and stop him from delivering cells and contesting objectives while invis.
I played 2 or 3 matches with cass and I'm gonna say I was a little bit biased, she's fine and well balanced and gets countered pretty easily by long range fighters.
Zerocool could use a little help though, another stamina gauge or self healing bots.
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As a Daemon main (who's clocked in almost 11 hours only playing him during this beta). I believe Daemon under no circumstances should be able to contest objectives while invisible, nor deliver power cells.
I main stealth characters in almost all pvp games, and it's deliberately balanced like that for a reason. Infinite stealth itself is ok, but once interaction happens in any capacity, you should immediately be unstealthed.
Truthfully I consider the infinite stealth mod useless (due to the vanilla stealth lasting ages as is), but I don't like the idea of cheesing objectives so nonchalantly. Making it so the Daemon can only drop power cells or contest an objective once he manually unstealths himself, is an easy fix.
About Maeve, I think her ''advanced'' status is unrepresentative of the skill she actually takes to perform well with. She has cage (as an escape or trap). She has stealth + invincibility, and stamina for escapes. A self heal. Amazing damage. Then you can top all these tools off with complete cooldown resets on kills.
Of course one can say she needs to get an actual kill for her cooldowns to reset, but she's a ranged dps and it really isn't that hard to do even if you're technical or not (unless you're focused down extremely hard). Even the dev team on stream have constantly said ''Maeve is my favorite'' and the same case is said for most of the YouTubers/Streamers who also pick her up. The reason is unfortunately obvious that her kit is heavily over-tuned (despite them trying to balance it out with massive cooldowns), and I strongly believe she'll become a top pick once the game fleshes out in the future.
In fact, I'm going to pick her up myself once the game officially launches since I'd like a second dps role.
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@TreasuredGems You actually summed everything up about maeve, I just didn't have the words to do it myself, thanks.
I like that a daemon "main" (too early maybe? lol) agrees on the stealth ability and objective contestation. It means I'm not biased, maybe?
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@x-AmberPrice
wow those makutu heals are insane. lol that does seem a little OP, that is about the same amount the healers in my games will get.
lol in the first screenshot you literally have more heals than a zero cool. hes basically an insane damage absorbing healer. at least when you are playing him.
this makes me wonder how much healing i do during my games as makutu, i never thought to look. but my mod list was all built towards healing so it really makes me wonder. its probs just you being a god with him or something though.
@Votre-Daron said in My 2 cents on the overall game balance.:
For the daemon invis what they can do is either give him a cameleon looking like invis, when you can see the environment distord around his hitbox, I don't think it's a great idea though.
thats how it is
i think you are right. they should just make it so he cant cap or deliver objectives while invis. although i dont think he should drop cells when he gos invis, cause then it would be useless to go invis. but just dont let him hand in while invis
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@D4m0R3d You actually can't see daemon on the mini map when he's delivering cells while invis.
If there's any cameleon effect, i'm sorry but it's poorly done. He just comes across as obnoxious, he can insta and unlimited invis, can slow you down, has a great dash, a good super (deathmark, the other one is ok), a good damage output and can sleep you, he doesn't have much downsides compared to cass for example.
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@Votre-Daron Daemon can't deliver power cells while invisible. In fact, he'll just stand there and do nothing. I watched many a streamer try to turn in cells only to sit there in stealth without turning in - you have to cancel the stealth first. I would be pretty shocked if they changed this during the last beta so I'm not sure where you got the impression that he could do that. It may be possible this is a glitch with certain parameters to it though that you happened to see, like maybe the infinite stealth mod is glitched and allows the turn in of power cells? Either way it shouldn't be the case and hopefully they fix it quick if there's a bug.
Being able to contest objectives while stealthed is a grey area for me. It's really not too bad in my opinion, since he's basically announcing where he is and you can also stand on it to protect it. Besides, you all know you can see him when he's stealthed right? He has a blur and a really obvious shadow under him, so if you know approximately where he is it's pretty easy to break his stealth. Granted, some characters are better at this than others, but it's how I beat him with Gizmo because I generally see him coming and Sucka him.
@D4m0R3d You can evade Maeve's Cage, I've done it many times. However, I believe this interaction to be somewhat bugged or unfair. For example, if Cage is cast while you're already mid-evade, it seems to lands anyway. There's a small window after the telegraph where you can start the evade to escape, and that seems unfair given how every other ability in this game works.
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Yes, Daemon can't deliver while invisible. That didn't change.
It doesn't change the strength of his infinite stealth in Power Cells though. Once Daemon has hoarded 10+ cells (usually 20+) he's likely to not participate in any of the fights at all, and wait and wait and wait until either your team dies OR (more likely) when there are 2 points open where he'll de-cloak and drop in at the uncontested one. You can make the argument that if you know there's a Daemon with lots of cells then you should keep an eye on both points but it's much easier said than done when you've got 3 other enemies to contend with and travelling between points isn't instantaneous. It's especially annoying on Aqueducts when you've just spawned and the point you need to hand in or defend the enemy handing in is the rotating one and it's just about to open outside of THEIR spawn.
At least in Objective Control, if Daemon wants to contest points while invisible (which he CAN unlike Power Cells), it's not nearly as effective. He's doing no damage and he's susceptible to multiple AoE's. The difference in effect in Power Cells is that he doesn't need to be aggressive, and he can be patient and wait until a point is uncontested just at the right time, then it only takes 3-4 seconds to hand in from then.
RE Maeve's Cage, the only times I've ever evaded Maeve's Cage is if I've fortunately evaded at the exact second or marginally before she even uses it. If you evade on the audio cue or the visual cue, you will still get caught by it, just at the end of your evade. It is massively unfair, not even mentioning how incredibly effective and frequent that ability is. The current reaction time you're given is borderline impossible and completely different to how any other ability can be evaded like you said above.
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This is what I felt like, but maybe it isn't the case but he still uses his infinite stealth mod which is extremely annoying since you can't really counter him.
When he's contesting points it's just annoying, we had a scenario where we were smashing things around (miko and nid) and it was just too annoying, since he was just staying there doing nothing but trolling us.
I know that you can hear him but never knew you could see the blurs, I mean I was able to see what he's at approximately, but an infinite stealth mod with his high burst is a little bit too annoying.
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-What if the characters below 20% of their health would walk slower making chasing fighters around less of a problem, since everything is so melee centered.
Try saying that against an all ranged comp
