Maeve has too much power in drain and cage combo
So you're gonna argue about maeve but not argue about cass and how her ult hits all characters at once, and she can spam her fucking bird wings (her b or whatever) to attack from a distance? That's dumb. Maeve is completely balanced. If you nerf her cage, which is like 1 second, then she's not even a character. If you nerf her life steal then that's the same thing, she has nothing going for her except her auto attack. Yet daemon can auto attack for days and deal twice the damage as maeve. I don't understand your complaint. This is coming from a maeve main with 15 hours on her.
@Notsojoker7881 dude you are crying about an ult you can dodge when Maeve has a fucking spirit bomb that can nuke whole teams and just for icing on the cake if it’s targeting you when she pops it your getting hit regardless. Cass “bird wings” which is her basic attack is what keep her from getting nuked in the middle of a fight, it has the lowest range of any ranged basic. The fact that you are a Maeve main would explain why you so salty about her being criticized and instead of coming up with an informed argument you just say “BUH BUH BUT, CASS’S ULT BRO” first off your cage basically negates that ult and you can use your invis to escape so if your getting smacked around by that AoE it’s your own fault. I’m talking about the simple fact that Maeve has absolutely no dynamic...at all. You cage-siphon-aa and invis when you get in trouble. She is literally the most boring character to play against.
@AiZeNxQT wasn't even talking about maeves ult but its fine. Cass is way more op than maeve. Ps. I love the fact your main argument is cage siphoning even knowing that the invis is on a 10 second cooldown with a 2 second invis, which i mean, if you dont follow her, you're bad in general. And that the cage is like a 1 second cage. You're literally dumb kid. Maeve isn't op. Cass and el bastard is.
@Notsojoker7881 Well the thread is about Maeve not Cass but you’re right, blade dance is too strong. But at least you gotta play her and not cage drain invis cage drain reset cage drain invis .
I’m not saying I want her nerfed, they just need to move power around in her kit so that she is less annoying and oppressive.
I played all heroes extensively this weekend and she was probably one of the safest characters with some of the highest dps I played. I had several no death games over 15k damage too. Resets galore in a few matches. To be fair I was in 4 mans all weekend.
She felt broken to play with and against.
@Notsojoker7881 I realize you weren’t talking about maeves ult. I’m talking about it and about how strong it has been in the beta. Is bladestoem strong? Sure but I wouldn’t even roll bladestoem if her other ult wasn’t complete dog shit and I’ve seen team after team lose Maeve on her 2 second invis. It’s not like the normal situation will be her alone. She pops invis in a team fight then you have a whole other team to focus on while she reset and gets the kill then her ENTIRE KIT resets. Explain to my cass is so op? I’ll wait. She has 0 cc outside of her divebomb ult and her auto attack is no strong then any other damage dealer. Her biggest strengths are mobility and the ability to do consistent damage at any range. The fact is it is far easier to be good with Maeve then it is to do well with cass.
@Notsojoker7881 you also have yet to give us an argument to the idea she is nothing but a button character. Just pointed out that you think cass is op because of 1 ability.
I think Maeve is so overpowered it kind of feels cynical. Like Ninja Theory is doing it on purpose for a laugh. She has everything: high damage, drain, trivial to use CC, and an easy and frequently used escape. It's like they sat down and asked themselves: how can we make the most over powered character in the history of arena games? And then never fix the character, just act like it's normal?
Then counter her. Numerous abilities are capable of stopping her Life Siphon. Also practice evading her Cage. It's super tricky I know but it's doable and will screw up her ability to finish you off. She relies heavily on Cage. If nothing else, gang up on her. She is a glass cannon so giving her a beating to force her to Vanish, keep up with her and she'll die easy. Done.
@CheekHugger She can be countered, she's not stupidly OP Strong af yeah but not OP. Learn to counter them, that's how these games work.
I play soloQ way to much, but that being said Maeve can be irritating but she's a classic glass cannon. Have a team member with a counter to her keep her in check and honestly Toil is really not that good. Dodge it. If you get caged and toiled, sure you'll eat it but frankly Peek A Brew has more setups and utility. He mobility is kind of garbage.
Maeve is really only powerful in a match if you let her be.
@I-WORSTPLAYER-I the game doesn't work that way. No game does. The character is insanely OP and no one is going to figure out how to combat it nor should they. Give me a break.
@MisfitBanjax said in Maeve has too much power in drain and cage combo:
Numerous abilities are capable of stopping her Life Siphon. Also practice evading her Cage. It's super tricky I know but it's doable and will screw up her ability to finish you off. She relies heavily on Cage. If nothing else, gang up on her. She is a glass cannon so giving her a beating to force her to Vanish, keep up with her and she'll die easy. Done.
@CheekHugger Literally just clued you in to how to counter her here.
It really is like @I-WORSTPLAYER-I said, she is really only powerful in a match if you let her be.
Right now you are just making yourself sound like you're not willing to put in any effort. It's a team game, players are expected to figure out how to beat the enemy AS A TEAM.
@MisfitBanjax Sorry no, the answer isn't come up with some wondrous work around or have the entire team gang up on a single character (pretty much proves my point). The answer is to simply fix her. Only her and Buttercup require some kind of obscene full team offensive to merely deal with, let alone defeat. They're stupid OP and need fixing. Losing her cage would be a good first step. That or her vanish, which really she should never have had.
@CheekHugger Not a "wondrous work around". Just normal counterplay. It's how players in competitive games, you know, win matches. And it doesn't take the whole team to beat Maeve. Just a bit of focus from like 2 people. Alternatively, just one El Bastardo with a good build for aggressive chasing or a persistent, mechanically skilled Cass. It's really not that complicated.
Then again, I suppose as someone who seems to mostly only play Gizmo and not even lock-on properly, you would find her too difficult to deal with since Gizmo is not an effective match-up against Maeve anyways.
Honestly doesn't even need that.
Cage? Dodge it.
Can't dodge it? Giz place the nade, she'll release or get knocked out of it, Daemon? Stealth, Nid? Little less reliable but Axe. Cass? You're fucked. Cass has other advantages though. Miko can likely survive almost anything unless she's hurt. Still shield. I like DPS Kulev vs Maeve honestly. ZC? You might be in a world of hurt. Heal bot + heal mod and you can still rock out if you're not hurt.
BC? She'll survive it, Bastardo? He's got options. Makutu? Dude will definitely survive it. MEKKO? Hahaha he hates all of jooo.
I mean yeah if your team is hurting and Maeve comes in on the backend? Yeah she can sweep you if you're not paying attention.
That is basically her role.
@I-WORSTPLAYER-I Exactly! Plenty of options
@MisfitBanjax I don't mean to come across as a fucking asshole but telling someone that they just aren't putting in enough effort, and the whole team should constantly deal with this ONE character who can teleport away, when dealing with a character that is oppressive is a very out of touch argument. The game won't get better if we just say "try harder" when someone feels a character is a problem. The game will only get worse. Go look at every other moba and overwatch right now lol. At least have a decent conversation about it. I feel really bad for Cass mains. Even one of the devs said on a live stream that Maeve will MELT Cass. I understand that counter picks and switching your character is something you have to do in a game like bleeding edge, but this hard counter is quite ridiculous. Cass isn't even overpowered to begin with. If Maeve weren't in the game, Cass still wouldn't be overthetop.
And let's just face it. Maeve is a skill based dps that gets reset CDs, a teleport, stealth, a trap, drain, and a giant burst damage attack. We are playing this game to have FUN, and Maeve isn't as fun to play against. At least make her a better character so she is even fun to play against. Just like how we should treat every character. I say this as someone who mains Makutu (who also has issues we need to be honest about) who will eat her ult for breakfast, or shield it for my teammates.
@GattlingCombo Pretty much. When dealing with a fight you're not just focusing on one other combatant, but also their team mates, and your team mates current predicaments. When you throw an even somewhat competent Maeve into the mix everyone has to adjust what they're doing just because she is present. And at any time she can merely cage someone, vanish, go get some health, and be back doing it all over again in 15 - 20 seconds. She is the epitome of an overpowered character in a game like this.
Buttercup is only slightly worse because even though she can quickly dominate and kill anyone trying to defend or attack a point, at least with a little communication she can be burned down. But given all of the tools at her disposal she still does far too much damage. And that Mortal Kombat Scorpion skill has far too much reach, which makes her even worse. She can grapple people into her group that couldn't even attack her from range if they spent several more seconds closing in.
The two characters have glaring issues everyone can see. So just fix them. It isn't hard. It's not like this is the first arena combat game to have had challenges with a few characters. It's just that with Bleeding Edge they don't seem to care.
First of all, you're not coming across as an asshole for having a valid argument. You're just being a little ignorant. Saying that I am saying "the whole team should constantly deal with this ONE character" when in my last post I specifically denied that saying that Maeve can be countered with as little as one person, and then Worst player backed me up on the same argument. For someone who is asking to at least have a conversation about it, you don't seem to be engaging with my points very well.
Secondly, Maeve can't really teleport away unless she uses her Peek A Brew super specifically to take advantage of an enemy who's greatly out of position. Given that's her biggest cooldown being used effectively to save her ass and punish an enemy in a specific situation I'd commend the amazing use of their super. Considering how most people like the burst of Toil And Trouble, I'd hardly consider her ability to "teleport away" a very big recurring problem.
Thirdly I want to make clear the specific points I am trying to argue.
- There's a difference between strong and overpowered
And that difference is one can be countered and is thus a healthy challenge, especially in a team game, the other cannot and is thus game-breaking. Now, I, as well as others, have given many examples of effective counters to Maeve, including plenty that, as previously mentioned, do not require a whole team, yet ye seem too stubborn in your arguments to actually try them.
- I'm trying to encourage good counterplay
It's a team game and counterplay is a fundamental part of it, especially in a competitive setting. This is true for pretty much every competitive game. Chances are, if you get stomped, that's why.
- Trying to balance characters is a very delicate art
It's something that can go wrong very easily, hence why my point of strong vs OP is important. Besides too much focus on the wrong thing can be detrimental to the overall development of the game.
Now in response to Cheekhugger...
You say in a team fight you're not just focusing on one other combatant, but also their team mates, and your team mates' current predicaments. For the most part, yes totally this is true! Situational awareness is important. However, you gotta have some focus on priority targets, right? Otherwise they are gonna keep the fight going until their team wears your team down, all while they are focusing the biggest problem for them on your team so they can come out on top. Regardless of who it is, be it BC, Maeve, Makutu, etc, if a competent fighter is thrown into the mix, everyone to adapt to deal with them anyway.
In the case of Maeve, yeah, she can totally do that...if she's ignored.
In Buttercup's case, hooks are always a strong mechanic in these kinds of games, and it's not that great on reach unless someone dedicates a mod slot to it. It is easy enough to hit with thanks to lock-on and her ability to close the distance which is in fairness the trade off for not being able to evade or parry. Plus she can be surprisingly squishy for a tank. All the strengths she has are to make up for what she lacks in sustain.
Again it's like what I said about strong vs OP, there's a difference between strength and an actual issue.
Like, of course anyone can look OP when you don't pay attention to their weaknesses. All fighters have them, just look.
Lastly, all I am saying applies to all fighters, not just Maeve. In the right hands I have seen every one of them become a nightmare. But then my friends and I would adapt, shut them down and win. Teams adapt. Typically, the winners are always the ones who adapt the best.
Now, I took care to address everything ye have said in your most recent responses, read it all and take my words into account before responding as well as address them properly when doing so. Aside from that, I'm all ears.