Makutu. Reworked or Broken? Very, Very Broken
@thetruepilliger in general I agree w @b4njAx on this. I'm probably actually on the other side of him a little. I like a number of your ideas, but imo all of them together is too big a nerf. Which of your ideas to pick really depends on what you want Makutu to be in the end. For me, Makutu should be a defensive disruptor, so I really only see two problems with him: (1) the cheese, and (2) the insane damage. I tend to think his abilities (uppercut, leggit) wouldn't feel as broken if he wasn't disrupting and then punishing you on top of the disruption. He should only be able to do one or the other (imo, disrupting but not punishing). Problem w uppercut is not just that it stuns. W the right combo, it basically takes a number of fighters out of the fight. THAT'S what it shouldn't do, imo.
Aside from the cheese fix, I favor one simple nerf: significantly reduce base damage for regular combo sequence attacks and barge. Makutu should not be able to 1v1 absolutely anyone, as you said. Picking Makutu should mean you're choosing to be a utility tank who peels, disrupts, and helps sustain, but still has to rely on your DPS to do some actual work after you peel and disrupt for them. Switching to huaki with buffs and damage mods should make you do decent damage, not be a god. I don't know the exact right number for the damage value nerf, but it should be sizeable.
@Matolius His aggressive stance should not have a damage buff at all. For the style of disruption Makutu naturally fits in to, his aggressive stance shouldn't have anything to do with damage or healing(Ora stance has healing covered). It should be a proper movement speed or damage reduction buff.
Also seriously, the uppercut is perfect in my opinion. It's really good for what it does but is somewhat limited by a few factors that I believe make it reasonable. Those factors being you have to combo to it and hold the attack button, you gotta be in the right stance AND obviously, it can be evaded. Once damage buff is removed, the whole uppercut combo won't have much of a bite. That said, any damage from mods is fair game.
The Uppercut is strong not because of its damage, in my opinion, but the devestating stun lock against tanks. If you uppercut a tank and then mid air cast Leg-it you plummet to the ground while you opponent slowly descends. You go straight into another basic attack combo and by the time the tank is standing up they are already being carried back into the air by another uppercut where they will surely be stun locked. Attraction, Barge, back into another combo, take your pick. It would be nice it did more damage but honestly Makutu should be good at bullying squishies, which he is, but he is best at bullying tanks who genuninely cannot escape on their own.
I thought the damage reduction would be best in Ora Stance since that is his defensive stance. Huaki should be reserved for attacking or running away. In my opinion, of course.
Leg-it granting Unstoppable is a bit much but I do like how it can be used. Maybe it should only grant himself Unstoppable while his allies would be cleansed of slows and become slow immune (mesh the old Leg-it with the new) while still granting everyone move speed.
Removing the stun from Attraction was more of an idea to prevent Huaki stance from being SO effective.
@thetruepilliger I made a typo:
"It would be nice it did more damage but honestly Makutu should be good at bullying squishies, which he is, but he is best at bullying tanks who genuninely cannot escape on their own."
The bit about "it would be nice if it did more damage." That could be easily misunderstood. I like HOW the uppercut does more damage and should be a hard hitting attack. The problem is when he is able to perform the attack over and over against a high hp hero who genuinely cannot get away. Squishies can evade it but after the first one lands on a tank they are pretty much guaranteed to receive another two. Busted
@thetruepilliger I'll be honest, I didn't notice that was a thing and totally forgot about tanks mostly not being able to parry. I can now sorta see how that can be problematic
@b4njAx there is a trick where if you are playing a tank you stopping locking onto Makutu, walk away from him during his Uppercut animation, and then turn back after he gets airborne. He misses the uppercut and it is the ONLY way to consistently evade the attack as a tank. For some reason the initial animation of the Uppercut doesn't apply hitstun, it is only the follow up airborne animations that carry tanks. So there is some counter play but the technique to dodging the attack is strange, obscure, and annoying to repeat.
I mean if you are playing Buttercup and you have to turn around every 5 seconds to avoid being juggled you'll be happy to avoid the stun lock but it gets old really fast. For some reason if you are playing Mekko, use this technique, but leave your shield up Makutu will still carry you into the air. I guess it is because with the shield up Mekko has a bigger hit box. Point being, even though there is a way for tanks to play around the uppercut it is obnoxious and dumb.
@thetruepilliger I don't think the uppercut itself is obnoxious and dumb, just the ability to be endlessly combo'd by it. Even then, only really in solo queue when you don't have teammates who can actually back you up. If you're trying to 1v1 a Makutu as a tank (or anything else for that matter) as he is now, you're asking for trouble anyways. If your team can CC him at all then it shouldn't be a big deal.
Cheers for the tip about lock-off and stepping back, that seems quite useful in a pinch!
@thetruepilliger that's is almost exactly thing whose l thinking about his uppercut tanks
Like, isn't a bad idea,but isn't ideal or balance for a tank can make any tank invaluable,even el bastardo have more chances than other tanks might have.
The majority tanks doesn't have evade options and can be catch in another uppercut very quickly while still getting up
If this uppercut just cause a little stager while tanks are stand up and doesn't pull up them, honestly l didn't have nothing against,and like you said isn't about damage but is about the basic stun(or bullying) that makutu massively do.
Attraction l ok if this,the problem is his shoulder whose with his buff damage very strong (think has other one whose is strong too)