The Healing Problem
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If you’re chasing down someone on your own when they’re getting healed then you’re playing the game wrong. It’s a team game not a solo one.
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@TheRedVisor said in The Healing Problem:
In a similar game for example overwatch. You can focus people other than the healer and still kill them. But in this game, the health is so high and healing so quick, that you can't kill other players without killing the healer.
true. overwatch has 6 players and so its harder to heal everyone on your team, aslo you can kill people much faster in overwatch.
i agree with you. i think healing should be toned down abit for zero at least and maybe make it so miko cant use her heal as often.
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As a Healer main i'll try to explain why this isn't what should happen. We don't want to do more damage, and we don't want to have more health. We want our main focus to be healing, that's why we do it. There are plenty of other ways to deal with a healer rather than just killing them and ill try to provide examples while I go.
First: Chain CC
Use multiple stuns, slows, etc. to bother the healer, if they aren't super comfortable they will start to back off OR panic waste their abilities.Second: Bait their support abilities
Put a TON of pressure on Kulev for JUST A SECOND, he will be forced to shield himself, then you switch to another Damage character. His heal isn't strong enough to withstand all your damage at one.Third: Target Switching
This is key in games like WoW where the fights last a long time, you need to know when to switch and burst certain targets at certain times. Gizmo just rounded a corner and is seperated frome her healer? BOOM. Melted.Fourth: NEVER FOCUS THE TANK
If the two people playing together are a good Tank and Healer combo, the Tank WILL live FOREVER. So you should never expect to kill him. Choose your targets wisely.If you need some one to play with or just have questions feel free to add me!!
@Capnkn0ts
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@D4m0R3d In overwatch burst exists and healing can be interupted, since the devs knew it would be a problem if you had to run for the healer every fight.
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@TheRedVisor I’m glad I’m not the only one who sees this. It is so aggravating to have to chase someone down for ages just to possibly kill them, or it takes so long that backup arrives and you get killed. It takes foreever to kill in this game. That’s ok if it wasn’t for the constant dodging and running away people do. I feel like I spend more time chasing my prey down than fighting.
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@TheRedVisor said in The Healing Problem:
First of i think this game is amazing and i really want to keep playing, but was disapointed when everyone who played it with me quit, saying they would come back once healing is fixed.
Besides buffing the healing some characters until more are added, I don't think there's much that can be done to fix healing at the moment. Most of the problems I see are that people like to duel and run after easy targets, rather than stay as a group, divide and conquer and prioritise healers (the role that keeps a well grouped party together, and the one that kills it if they chase a retreating ally).
I hope someone see's this because it is the only problem i have with the game. Healers are too essential and too powerfull.
Naturally, that's why you focus on them first and then take out the rest of the team whose self-healing and powerups are miniscule. I'm not defending this because it's the status quo as the Holy Trinity (Tank, Healer, Damage Dealer)'s flaws are well known by now, I'm defending it because it's a design choice that works.
In a game wit high health pools it is extremely annoying to chase down someone only to have a healer restore their health instantly and then try to escape yourself
See above. We yell at horror movies for splitting the group, we hate Rogues in tabletop RPGs for running off and dying on their own, and I personally don't like when other players are lured away from the party when the healer is still with the main group. I'll admit I've doomed groups for chasing after someone with low health, and it's something I have to continue to learn not to do. When the healer's dead all bets are off, but until then, I stick with my team, I ping the healer and we've then a foot in victory's door.
, realize you have no healer,
Because you ran away.
run around to get health packs which spawn far too slowly,
Their spawn rates are fine. Even support characters can pick away at the health bars of those who have just picked up those packs. They're a last resort for teams whose healers are away. Personally I think there's too many on a map.
and then die, after which you try to pick up the slack by being a healer yourself, and then be targeted intantly in every team fight because you are far too valuable to keep alive.
That's Bleeding Edge. I don't want to be the asshole who says "if you don't like it, don't play", I don't want to turn players away out of spite (or for any reason). However I'm of the mindset that the design choice is solid, and for the sake of you and your group's fun you really would be better off playing something like Team Fortress 2 if you want gameplay that encourages splitting up to take objectives and rogue kills.
There is a point to be made about having to be a healer though. Like I said earlier the Holy Trinity of MMOs is far from perfect, but diluting it doesn't make it better. It just makes those who enjoy healing enjoy it less, or have to pick a non-Support character, or play their Support character as a squishy Tank or poor Damage.
I would suggest far less overall healing for the supports, and a much faster recharge for health packs or health recharge over time.
Your thesis is disagreeable but your conclusion is the opposite. This is a good compromise, but then why have healers? When they're healing they're not doing damage, and if health packs are available they're then just a bad damage dealer.
I really hope they fix this because none of my friends are going to play it with me until they do.
I'm sorry to hear that, but I genuinely hope you all find a game more agreeable or a compromise between the developer's current vision and your ideas is agreed upon. ^^
As a side note, granny putting you in a cage is a real feels bad of an ability.
I hope people who main Maeve are enjoying her because I forsee nerfs incoming. Maybe not the next patch, or the one after, but I think she needs some work.
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The problem with healers is actually a problem with dps. If you are constantly attacking and pushing the right targets for positioning and range the healers have to exhaust resources. If u just spend all fight chasing heals and getting kited and focused cause you’re out of position you’re probably going to lose. Healers have cool downs and Zerocool’s beam weakens The longer it’s active. When dps stops doing damage to chase healers win fights. You’re better off damaging other targets as a 4 man than running around letting healers cds come up.
And I disagree with not focusing the tank. If they’re grossly out of position they’re either gonna die or pull the healer into a compromised position and then u can switch target to healer. I put a post on the Reddit demostrating this concept a few days back. But generally focusing the tank is not the best idea
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@Johnbonne First of all, thank you all for posting on here without treating me like an idiot. I understand the way the way the game works, prioritizing and the like. Heri shoofers, and now this melee hero fighter. Are pretty much all i play.
I know some of you agreed with me and some didn't, and yes if your team is working together most of these issues are null qnd void.
However, the problem with most team based hero shooters is they all end up struggling with issues of balance and the like, in casual matches, when most people want to pew pew.
The example i gave was not my average game, it was a bad game, with randoms who dont want to wkrk together.
And saying just don't play if you don't get it doesn't work. Games need large player bases to survive. For players unlike myself who just can't pick up a hero shooter because of tge inherit problems, i hope tjis game cam be different. I love them and undersrand how they should be played, but moat casual players do not, and the above issues if not addressed i feel will greatly hurt the game.In short, i think, 1v1's should have more insentive not to run away. Something like halo where as long as you run away your shields don't return. But obviously more optimized for this game
All healing should be sligjtly reduced. In zero cool's case, greatly reduced, and his surviveability increased. Zero cool is always thr first to die because his healing is too good, i always feel bad when my entire team destroys him as his team does nothing. I am a Miko main and i am never focused like him. In my probably 20+ hours playing so far, i only have like 10 deaths in total and 5 were to buses lol.
(Once again these are needs, i feel, for casual players.)
With everyone i play with, the healing and running away are the only issues they bring up. After that i think this game will be that much greater.
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@TheRedVisor said in The Healing Problem:
Heri shoofers, and now this melee hero fighter. Are pretty much all i play.
I apologise for the earlier condesencion. I get too easily riled by feedback posts that could heavily affect a game I enjoy, and Bleeding Edge is the first multiplayer game I've played in.... five years, that's been remotely like Paladins pre-CB35, with its high TTK and lack of Viktor. I have a very selfish interest in seeing this game remain as is because without it I have nothing else.
However, the problem with most team based hero shooters is they all end up struggling with issues of balance and the like, in casual matches, when most people want to pew pew.
The problem there is when most people want to pew pew. I love that Bleeding Edge tells them to shape up or ship out in that regard, and if they leave, the game is better for everyone. Though as you go on to say, that leaves us with far fewer players.
The example i gave was not my average game, it was a bad game, with randoms who dont want to wkrk together.
This is unfortunately quite common for me. My highest streaks (note the plural) of defeats often go 5+, my highest streak of victories only happened once at 7. Winning only a third of games is not fun.
And saying just don't play if you don't get it doesn't work. Games need large player bases to survive.
I agree, it's why games such as TOXIKK and LawBreakers never really kicked off, because they have a very specific vision and people didn't really like it. Like me they like team based shooters where they don't have to play as a team, which is why I play something like Paladins or Overwatch or TF2. When I do want to be in a team though, Bleeding Edge is where I want to be. Unfortunately I think Bleeding Edge - if it can't draw in those team players - will join the ranks of the former.
I think if Bleeding Edge were to start adjusting to the people who want to run around alone I'd have to leave, which doesn't really matter to the developers. The wants of the many outweigh the wants of the few; I saw it with Paladins, and I'll see it with Bleeding Edge.
For players unlike myself who just can't pick up a hero shooter because of tge inherit problems, i hope tjis game cam be different.
See I love Bleeding Edge for that reason. The high TTK lets me figure out what's wrong, and when I'm dying too quickly I can pinpoint exactly what it is in the post-death screen (or killcam). I've only clocked 12 hours in-game and I feel like a guru, though that mostly comes from ego. xD
love them and undersrand how they should be played, but moat casual players do not, and the above issues if not addressed i feel will greatly hurt the game.
I feel the opposite: if they do change it that will hurt the game. Well, numbers will go up, but I'm not sure how the developers will feel with a greater fanbase tearing itself apart with inconsistent feedback, and having to tread on eggshells to please everyone. I'm not saying your feedback is the catalyst of the game's downfall, and I'm not saying the game's perfect. It's hard to strike that middle ground, ever harder when more players of all different skillsets and backgrounds enter the game.
In short, i think, 1v1's should have more insentive not to run away.
I concur.
Something like halo where as long as you run away your shields don't return. But obviously more optimized for this game
That too's an interesting idea. In fact, I'd go as far as to say that character's self healing like Zero Cool's only kicks in when near the team, or the same with Makutu.
All healing should be sligjtly reduced. In zero cool's case, greatly reduced, and his surviveability increased. Zero cool is always thr first to die because his healing is too good, i always feel bad when my entire team destroys him as his team does nothing.
I get where you're coming from on this, we just fundamentally disagree. I think if ZC's dying the team should be aware of that and if not, they should feel it.
I am a Miko main and i am never focused like him.
I can see where you're coming from with that. I make a point of taking out any healers, especially proactive ones. I find Miko hides her healing well, it's only when she uses Life Force that I go into panic stations and try to take her down.
In my probably 20+ hours playing so far, i only have like 10 deaths in total and 5 were to buses lol.
You lucky sod. I'm gonna start maining Miko now! >.<
(Once again these are needs, i feel, for casual players.)
We may need to define what casual is. I'm terrible at most hero shooters and MOBAs, and yet I consider myself pretty good at Bleeding Edge, but that's mostly because of the high TTK and settling in early on. So I'm not sure if I'm casual in general, or hardcore because I play a lot of this game and love it to death.
With everyone i play with, the healing and running away are the only issues they bring up.
That and the matchmaking, and I fully agree.
After that i think this game will be that much greater.
I hope it's that simple.
Thanks for getting back to us, it's nice to have the back and fourth I don't get to see in many discussions on this forum. ^^
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At the very least I do think that if an entire team is teaming up on one tank it should go down eventually. I think the main issue is just how powerful zero cools healing is. Otherwise yeah focusing down the healer no matter what is important.
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@Johnbonne Dang i didn't realize how many errors there were in my typing, sorry lol.
But yeah mostly i think at least, zero cool's healing should be greatly reduced.
Maeve should have more reaction time to evade her cage.
Possibly a life regen out of combat.
And maybe a decrease in speed when out of stamine? Not sure on that one, just thinking of ways to help the running away issue, especially with Cass.
