New game features
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@D4m0R3d No offence taken lol.
These are just suggestions so, thanks for the feedback.
But for the assassin category, it would help people know what this character does in particular. Look at overwatch's categories, they random and they can get confusing sometimes. assassin's are supposed to be low health, high mobility, or high damage.
Another thing is for example flankers in overwatch, what makes genji useless and tracer kind of meh are tanks, if you know what counters them it would be easier to balance everything out, look at paladins, they nerfed all the tanks recently so flankers would be useful again.
Besides a category is never pointless, it's easy to put in game and brings some originality and precision to the gameplay.
But hey if you think the contrary it's up to you.
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"But for the assassin category, it would help people know what this character does in particular. Look at overwatch's categories, they random and they can get confusing sometimes. assassin's are supposed to be low health, high mobility, or high damage."
whats the difference between that and dps. dps is supposed to have all these same traits, otherwise they should be a tank.
"they random and they can get confusing sometimes"
i dont see how? you will have to elaborate on this. you have tanks. who have high health, usually slower and usually does less damage. dps who is usually lower health, high mobility and high damage. then healers who usually have less health, mid mobility, and mid damage + heals. do you mean some characters look like ninjas but are catagorised as dps? like genji who is a ninja? or how some characters are ranged but are dps? like hanzo and widow? either way, they are still dps and its pretty self explanitory how they work. and I mean they could do sub descriptions on characters saying this guy is ranged, but I mean sniper rifle/ bow usually means dont go punching range.
"Another thing is for example flankers in overwatch, what makes genji useless and tracer kind of meh are tanks,"
genji and tracer are not useless. they are very usefull for taking out squishies. and are able to easily evade most tanks. the only counter to genji is winston really. as for tracer, i guess also winston but she can easily evade winston so not really.
"a category is never pointless, it's easy to put in game and brings some originality and precision to the gameplay."
i just dont think it brings originality or precision to the gameplay. it doesnt change anything just the title. the characters are the same and the concept is the same. now you could put them in sub catagories but not titles. where they are described as stealthy/ fast, or watever but i feel that is self explanitory when looking at the characters abilities and thus pointless.
but yea from your definition of assassins what do you believe is different from assassin/ dps. cause i would describe dps the exact same way you described assassin "low health, high mobility, or high damage" and i honestly cant take any of the dps characters out of this catagory. they all seem to have these qualities.
i think assassin is just a way to re word dps. so idk it just seems pointless to me. dps is what is used in these types of games at least from my knowledge. it is called dps in overwatch.
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@D4m0R3d
Genji is in a pretty bad place but whatever.Assassin's are high mobility, low health, or high mobility, high damage.
This game having a moba background, this could make sense: dps are low mobility, high damage. Assassins are high mobility, low health. The dps mission is to kill tanks, assassins to kill squishies, and especially healers. It's easily done by paladins.
An other thing is if they ever add a role lock or role queue feature (hope they'll never add it), but if they do the dps queue times would be separatd into two categories and thus avoiding overwatch's huge dps role queues.
In order for them to kill squishies they have to get near them and tanks like zarya, winston and sigma destroy these flankers, and genji is really struggling lately in diamond and above.
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"Assassin's are high mobility, low health, or high mobility, high damage."
yes that is exactly what dps is though. dps is high mobility, low health, or high mobility, high damage. look at all the overwatch dps characters. then also look at all the bleeding edge dps characters. all have high mobility, lower health high damage, when they are less mobile they have more health but its still med health.
"dps are low mobility, high damage."
so basically all dps characters should be assassins because no dps exist. idk bro are you sure you dont just want to call them assassins because they look like ninja assassins or something. what other games call them assassins? either way i see all the dps as having mobility abilities. gizmo has her bounce pad and her bomb that slows others, and niddhogger has his powerslide and a boomatar stun. these abilities make them mobile. and if you disagree, do you think they should really make another catagory just for gizmo and nidhoggr called dps while everyone else is assassin, for what? so people know these are the faster ones? idk dude it just seems self explanitory to me how they are. i think tank, dps and healer is simple enough. no need to get into each sub section catagory.
should we also do secondary heals, and primary heals catagories, zero cool in primary the others in secondary?
idk bro it just seems like its overcomplicating something that really just doesnt need the change.
"An other thing is if they ever add a role lock or role queue feature (hope they'll never add it), but if they do the dps queue times would be separatd into two categories and thus avoiding overwatch's huge dps role queues."
ok here you make a good point. and while it seems cool that there would be 4 catagories for a 4 player game it also just still seems pointless to me. and i too hope they never add role que. plus then you are also locked into that sub catagory. you would then be locked into only playing assassins. so even if this ever does become a thing, it cant be untill they already have shit tons of playable characters.
"zarya, winston and sigma destroy these flankers, and genji is really struggling lately in diamond and above."
so what changed in diamond? sigma really good or something? im trying to think why sigma would be a good counter for genji and i just dont know why. zarya and winston yea, but why sigma? what has changed that has made it so he struggles so much and why does this even matter to our convo lol, now im just curious tho. (but yea what does genji matter to this, i cant remember, lol if he was in assassin catagory would he be better?)
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@D4m0R3d
But cass and daemon are really what assassins are, gizmo isn't, maeve isn't, nid isn't.That's what I'm trying to say, for me dps are slow with high damage. Also adding this category may also help the devs to split the dps in two giving them the opportunity to create a lot of both, thus not having a huuuuuuge dps category like ow.
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Ok I got a little confused for a second. You want to reintroduce the Assassin class, you're not saying it still exists. The original classes were ninja-patched from the Heavy/Assassin/Support classes to be Tank/Damage/Support instead at the beginning of the beta, so at first I thought that's what you were referring to. So yeah, a 4th category of fighter... hmm...
If there's going to be a class split, there needs to be a very clear reason as to why they are different. Tanks are obvious enough, they either have anti-flinch and no evade, or some method of anti-flinch like constant shielding with El Bastardo. Their role is to be able to survive longer and control the space around them, but they generally lack long range influence or damage as a result. Supports can heal others consistently as a baseline, so that's clear. Damage is the catchall for everyone else. Basically, I'm just asking for an at least somewhat vague mechanical differentiation to work with. There's definitely those that excel at flanking and the like, so that could be a category... high mobility and survivability, but low health, like Daemon and Cass. Maeve too to a lesser degree, but not quite. For the sake of argument let me call them Assassin and Assault, and we'll put Maeve in assault for now.
Assassin: Low health, high damage, high mobility or stealth, generally has a strong ability to leave fights but low sustain.
Assault: High damage, mid-to-high health but only average mobility and survivability, generally a method of sustain or ability to control an area through zoning.That could work... I'm not totally convinced it's necessary, but it can work.
I also dislike how disproportionate OW's setup is, but they really brought that on themselves. I mean seriously before role locking it was pretty common to have 3-4 DPS on the team. They did also use to be split into two categories (It was like what... assault and defense or something?). Now you can only have 2 DPS, they're all jumbled into one category, AND THEY KEEP COMING OUT WITH MORE OF THEM.
Bleeding Edge already broke my expectations with Mekko - as in I really though they were going to show favoritism towards a 1 tank, 2 damage, 1 support type of meta by releasing with a 3-6-3 class distribution. Now we have 4-5-3 and I'm no longer so sure about that. Their might be more damage fighters in general, but it's clear they're at least somewhat spreading out their character releases. They're also not a greedy ass company whose only goal is to release the highest damaging character possible with zero balance consideration at release so everyone will dump money on them. That might be the biggest benefit of there being literally no in-game cash shop atm.
When are we going to stop letting these hero-based arena games do that? Seriously?? We all knows it's what's happening. They think new characters only make them money if they're stupid powerful, so supports and tanks are released only after sufficient begging occurs. OW's Echo is already so clearly and obviously an overpowered character. You can use someone else's ultimate like 3 times in a row, while basically having an insane extra pool of health to blow through during it. It's no wonder we all think developers are braindead when they do this crap, but in reality some selfish business executive, who has never played a game in their life, is probably breathing down their necks and making them do it.
Basically what I'm saying is BE is in a good spot and I don't feel cause for concern just yet. The concern is there, but it's not too bad. If role queue ever occurs, my ideal scenario is that all classes are roughly equal in options, and the 4th character slot is a Flex role that can be Tank, Damage, or Support. I think pulling 2 from any category is a perfectly viable meta at this point in time. That being said, no role queue please.
Oh and as for one tricking, could you explain what you have against it? It's a little annoying when you have players who never play anything else when you need them to, but one tricking is an extremely viable method to get good at a game initially. I think it's a valid way to play as long as you can occasionally fill a role you need to. That person is definitely hard capping their own skill as a result though until they branch out more, as never switching mid-match is a suboptimal strategy. However, someone could just play two Damage dealers instead of one and still never be willing to go Tank or Support or switch in any meaningful way, thus two-tricking and creating just as annoying of a problem. That's just being a Damage main I guess. I don't really have a problem with people specializing in roles though, it just so happens that a disproportionate number of people tend to prefer Damage...
So you have two solutions atm and two outcomes. First: Ignore it and encounter every so often toxic players unwilling to take other roles and ruining the match for everyone. I mean, you'll encounter toxicity anyway, but there will be a lot of tense moments before the match even starts. Second: Role queue and long queue times on Damage queue, so those who main Damage can suck it up and those who like every role are constantly cringing when they see the queue time and never getting to play Damage anymore.
Well, I guess there's a third option based on what you said, but instead of for one tricks it can be done for classes. If you play 5 matches in a row in one class, you have to pick a different one... but uh, seems a bit extreme, and it's also confusing about what does or doesn't count. If I switch to a Support mid-match, was it a Damage or Support match? How long do I have to be in the role for it to count? Can it lock me out of a role mid-match when I've reached my limit? This game isn't in a good position for that kind of solution.
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I am main Gizmo and I would hate not being able to play her for 5 matches. Probably in one of these matches I will get bored and throw the game if we are losing or leave the match. Yes that is just wrong but I would be forced to play a hero that I don't want in 5 times
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@IxIThe-Robin I see the problem yes. I just hope they find a way to stop pure one tricking that's all.
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Also adding this category may also help the devs to split the dps in two giving them the opportunity to create a lot of both, thus not having a huuuuuuge dps category like ow.
huh? i dont think it would change anything for how the devs create characters, either way they are going to be creating characters. only maybe if they did create an assassin catagory they will be more constrained within categories and will have less freedom for creativity. at least thats my oppinion.
and we keep comparing it to overwatch and how we dont want it to have 1000 dps for every healer, but giving another name for some characters genre wont change that, assassin and dps are still both assult type characters, and so we will still just complain there is 20 assault characters for every 2 healers. and actually having the assassin genre might even encourage them to focus more on these catagories rather than healers and tanks.
he wasnt talking about one tricking, but about if the catagories were split, hed have gizmo and nidhoggr to pick from (if it were role que) and so he would either have to play gizmo or niddhoggr cause the assassins are in a dif catagory (i put maeve in assassins catagory because i beleive she is just as mobile as daemon, her invis allows her to move super fast and she can lock down enemies in order to help her escape.) at least this is what i think they were saying
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@D4m0R3d said in New game features:
You're making a great point didn't think of it if role queue was a thing. Other than that it's just my opinion. I'm not a dev I just hope they're better devs than ow devs, which seems like they are, no one feels extremely op when compared to the others.
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Honestly doesn't sound like a good idea lol. People love maining and focusing their skills in one character, including this game encourages playing your favorite character.
