The game is fun. Let's make it more fun
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I know what I'm bringing up here is kinda discussed in other topics, but I'm taking a different approach...
I guess we all can agree that flat buff mods that currently exist, are not really exciting to use. I mean, there is nothing wrong with a few flat damage buffs, but EVERY ability has one ! Like, who tha hell is gonna use extra damage for sucka on Gizmo ? Or extra damage for hightail on Cass? So I was thinking, there are 2 types of customization in terms of mod : Flat buffs which allows for buffing some numbers, and skill based mods which makes some abilities have some special effects... Like the mod which allows Kulev to generate healing while hitting the cursed target, or mod that makes Nidhoggr reduce the cooldown of fire breathe after hitting enemy with his guitar, OR my personal favorite, the mod that allows Cass to regenerate stamina after hitting with rake.
In my humble opinion, characters should have 2 type of loadouts. One, which allows them to just add flat number buffs to their kit... But to make it more interesting, it could have some sort of point system. For example, you have 20 points and can spend each one on a specific buff, like 1 point to add an extra 5% hp, or an extra 2% damage. So some might spend 5 points on hp to get 25% more hp, and 3 points to get an extra 6% damage, movement speed, ability cooldown, etc ...And to prevent the crazy op loadouts of this sort, there can be a cap, for instance you can't spend more than 5 points on one single stat. And for the other type of mods which allow for more wacky changes to the character, we can keep the existing loadout system... Pick 3 mods and put it into loadout, alongside the flat number buffs that are in the other loadout type.
This way, there will be no mandatory mods to pick , like increased healing for supports and increased hp for tanks. Because they are handled separately now.
I think this is a cool way of adding more depth and variety to the game. Also, there needs to be more mods for stamina generation. Stamina is kinda the most crucial part of the combat. And if you run out of it in a bad time, you're just dead. As much as it is important to manage your stamina, there needs to be more ways of getting more stamina by using SKILLS. Hitting rake with Cass may not be the most skilled way to get stamina, so I was thinking about something like doing some special combos for returning stamina. Some that might have high risk of putting you in danger if used poorly.So whachu think ?
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sounds to complicated. i like the way they have it now.
the way they have it now is nice. you buy a mod. and apply that mod. it feels more realistic. as though you have modified your augment and have now replaced it. but with yours since its soo wide in range it wouldnt really feel that way. you know what i mean? also its just way to complicated for many people to even care about it. plus idk it doesnt sound that interesting to me. you get to spend 5 points on 4 stats, strength, speed, health, and stamina? idk sounds bland. with the system they have now you have to look at many mods and consider the kind of build you are going for. with your one it sounds even more like a flat mod buff or watever. its just way less interesting imo. i wonder what other peeps think tho
aalso sounds like it would make shit super hard to ballance.
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Dude, you're telling me that adding a card that just adds a number, is more interesting than having a fully customizable deck ? I'm not saying that we remove the current system. The current system remains, under some other name like "legendary mods" which have more significant changes on playstyle, but let's add another loadout just for flat buffs to basic stats, which you can tweak according to your will. Maybe I wanna put more points in movement speed, someone puts more points on stamina regeneration. It is not the most exciting thing in the world, but it's 100 times more exiting that using one single card with a single effect. Also, it is not that complicated. There have been frustrating and huge item shops in other games which people love btw (But not me) and this doesn't sound complicated to me ... This thing that I'm suggesting, is very much like how the s.p.e.c.i.a.l system in fallout games is set up. You invest points in the stats that suits your playstyle.
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people collect and play card games.
and what you mean fully customisable deck, it sounds useless and not good. might aswell keep shit default.
"he current system remains, under some other name like "legendary mods" which have more significant changes on playstyle"
no that would just make shit OP. whats the point of doing that.
"Maybe I wanna put more points in movement speed, someone puts more points on stamina regeneration. It is not the most exciting thing in the world,"
it really isnt more exciting then the cards. with this there is no sence of achievment or specialness to it. its just pointless. you automatically have points that you can spend on your character. why not just not do that. so everyone is the same and so you can just use the cards.
"There have been frustrating and huge item shops in other games which people love btw"
item shops??? how is that similar to your idea. what items.
"This thing that I'm suggesting, is very much like how the s.p.e.c.i.a.l system in fallout games is set up"
i understand what you are suggesting it just sounds like an annoying waste of time in this game. a mechanic added to make shit more unballanced and annoying to manage. the cards are simple and easy. they make for some good builds and thats it. i dont want to go and have to customise my damn jump height, player speed, player health and strength individually with points. that would just widen the gap of each character make it an annoyance to manage, and play against.
it just sounds like a super bad idea to me. like giving everyone different amounts of health, speed, strength. even though they are the same character, just because they spent some points on it. the mods are a way more interesting way of doing it. think about it at the simplest level. your idea is just points. wow right. points or cards with specialised effects made specifically for each individual character. now can you really tell me your points idea is cooler and more interesting? no offence dude but it really just seems like it would be an annoyance and a waste of time. it just sounds pointless to me. (catch the pun?)
"You invest points in the stats that suits your playstyle."
you can invest into cards that suit your characters playstyle.
also games like fallout with its special system are designed to work over a long period of time. it wouldnt be cool if you started with all your special points.
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Believe me, this system is fine now, but will get stale and boring after a while. It's a lot better than a game like overwatch which doesn't have such things at all, but it's not gonna keep interests for a long time. Check out the loadout and talent and item shop systems in paladins. It's simple, yet effective. Unfortunately , paladins itself is a God-damn hirez game, which means it's a bunch of bugs with a little games attached to it ! But the systems implemented in it are really clever.
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and overwatch isnt stale even with none of it. if any of it will get stale, your thing will get stale aswell.
if paladins shit is so good why is it dead. i have seen paladins shit and honestly that shit yea i dont like dealing with it all. and if it actually helps you do better in game then that shit just sounds bad to me.
anyways like i said the mod method is more interesting then your idea. at least imo. so if the mods are gonna get stale then your stuff would get stale way quicker anyways
"your idea is just points. points or cards with specialised effects made specifically for each individual character."
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I feel like either I haven't delivered my thoughts correctly, or you just don't get it ... Let me explain in more details (All of the numbers are just examples)
There are 2 loadouts that you have to make for each character:
- The standard loadout : You have 20 points which you can increase your base stats:
- hp --> 4% per point
- movement speed --> 3% per point
- stamina generation --> 3% per point
- base damage --> 2% per point
- ability cooldowns --> 3% per point
- damage reduction --> 3% per point
- range of basic attack (If the character has one) --> 4% per point
- attack speed (For melee attacks) --> 3% per point
- crowd control reduction --> 4% per point
You can't spend more than 5 point for each of these, and also can choose to have only 5 of these stat buffs out of 9. And player can make 3 of this loadout for each character, and choose one after entering the game.
- The legendary loadout : It's the exact same mod system that we have, with all the flat buffs to hp and damage and range and stuff removed (Because we now have them at the standard loadout). These are mods which you can choose 3 of them to make a legendary loadout, and they give special abilities which we have in mods right now, like making the sucka apply reduced movement speed, or making oil slick apply reduced healing. Or there can be mods which make player gain stamina after using some abilities, stuff like that.
Player can also make 3 legendary loadouts for each character, and at the start of each match, you need to choose one standard loadout and one legendary loadout.
So there it is ! Any human being with the slightest sense of logic, can see that this system will make the game deeper and more customizable, and does not let the game become boring.
Also for Paladins, the loadout system is the only reason that keeps it alive. Otherwise, it would be burnt to the ground because of the amount of unacceptable technical issues.
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yea i get it. i just feel like its overcomplicating it. its adding tooooo much. its either one or the other, but i personally like the cards more.
if we have your thing plus cards, peeps gonna end up getting like 30% damage boosts, wich is just over the top. plus they get that with speeeed. now they are fucking people up. it just seems like an unnecessary addition.
why add this? you say to make the game not stale? well i dont think this will change it. overwatch isnt stale and it hasnt got none of this. plus people arent gonna be changing their minds that much on these points. they will probs follow the same pattern for each character. 5 points damage, 5 points speed. and thats how they want to play. they might not ever change it ever. so why even add it. all it does is increase peoples base stats to something it shouldnt be at.
thats just my oppinion on this.
"Any human being with the slightest sense of logic, can see that this system will make the game deeper and more customizable,"
i really wish other people would comment on this cause it just really doesnt seem interesting at all to me. it seems like a deep dark pit would be stupid to enter.
also i wouldnt say paladins is alive. its basically dead. maybe in amarica where you guys have a huge pop its still alive.
let me try explain how this sounds to me. say you can wave your hand in game. this to me sounds like it just allows you to twist your hand. its like ok well its from the same hand only now its wavingby twisting not by moving, whats the point. it just seems like a silly addition that isnt necessary at all. sure it ads shit to the game but why. maybe if we expand your idea further and exaggerate it you might understand. imagine your characters start with nothing and you build all there stats with points. well why??? why not just keep it so its default. thats how i feel about it. it doesnt sound interesting at all to me. and i really wonder how others feel about it.
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So basically this is a discussion about mods that augment quantitatively vs ones that augment qualitatively, and wanting to separate those choices into different loadouts and systems entirely. It would... complicate the game more by increasing customization, certainly, but I'm unconvinced that's at all better. I don't think it's possible to truly separate the quantitative and qualitative mods, because there are too many synergistic aspects that make many of the seemingly flat and boring buffs actually really impactful.
Your idea is like buying items in a MOBA - way too much micro-stat management that doesn't really fit and takes away from the characters which are already designed and balanced to be fun and interesting without the mods and meta crap anyway. And I don't want to be able to put 1 or 2 points into speed as I sprinkle them all over the place, I want to make a conscientious choice to get +20% mount speed over something else like anti-heal on Oil Slick on Buttercup. Those decisions have far more weight to them, and are more interesting despite being less complex. I also want it to be somewhat obvious to other players what my loadout is even without them having to go and specifically read my stat sheet. The mod system is just far simpler to balance and understand, from both the player's and the dev's side of things, without losing out on having an interesting strategic meta-game.
Besides, while I get that flat buffs seem boring, I have to disagree in many cases. Lets take the mod you brought up. +15% damage to Gizmo's Sucka. I actually have picked up that mod and used it and quite enjoyed it - wanna know why? A cluster of power cell canisters can't be one-shot unless you get that damage upgrade, that's the reason. While that may seem like a boring increase in a bland statistic, it's a quantitative boost that resulted in a qualitative change in gameplay for me. I now have two separate loadouts for objective control and power collection modes on Gizmo because of it.
Of course, I don't think all mods are good or interesting, but that's kind of a given that it will take time to discover the best balance for things as the devs tweak here and there and we play test it out. At least there's many cases where a seemingly boring upgrade turns out to actually have interesting repercussions. Like getting +100 to max hp on Buttercup seems boring, but it increases the max hp boost of Turbo Charged by 33 hp when you use it so it also has that synergy going for it.
I dunno, maybe there's a better way to achieve what you're going for instead of the micro-adjustments? Kind of makes me think of a possible map or game mode where instead of there being powerup pickups on the map, you instead grab a "blessing" back at base. You can get a single blessing: one for damage, defense, speed, or something else like stamina regen/CD reduction/healing. Either way, the mods as they are now add a lot of strategy without detracting from the brawling chaos the game offers, which is what I'm worried your idea would do.
So there it is ! Any human being with the slightest sense of logic, can see that this system will make the game deeper and more customizable, and does not let the game become boring.
Careful there bud. More customizable does not mean more fun. I learned that from league of legends. It's very easy to distract the player away from the core focus of the game and fall into increasingly boring decisions for the meta as players discover optimal strategies. It's a lot easier to nerf an overpicked and overbalanced mod a little instead of dealing with that mess.
What I'm saying is it doesn't matter how many stats and things I can tweak and customize, if the community is going to just come up with a "best choice" then all of that deep and complex design is going to go to waste and be way too complicated to balance in any meaningful or fair way.
I think your argument can boil down to wanting the meta-game to be more complex and "deep". If we can come up with an idea entirely separate from mods that doesn't affect them, I might be inclined to agree. Like a universal talent tree you build out or extra spell you could pick up in addition to picking your mod loadout. Like... What if you could pick up an ability that reduces your death timer? That kind of thing... That being said, I really don't think it's at all necessary or strictly beneficial to the gaming experience.
Right now being able to choose 3 mods and a super is enough for me. There's still so much more to explore and discover therein. Also every map and game mode presents different strategies and possibilities that I'm honestly worried 3 mod loadouts I can choose from may not be enough for me.
i really wish other people would comment on this cause it just really doesnt seem interesting at all to me. it seems like a deep dark pit would be stupid to enter.
Oh hey bud, I have arrived. Thanks for commenting on my character idea.
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Aight, y'all can not be convinced about this. But I guess we can agree that some of these mods are stupid ! Like, I'm never gonna use a mod to increase the damage of my escape ability which deals like 10 damage right now, and will deal 11 after using the mod. I think there needs to be more mods for regenerating stamina, or some mods for encouraging players to use parry. Right now, nobody is using parry because of high risk and low reward.
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thank you, you explained it way better than me (also i love commenting and seeing character ideas. its always interesting to see the possibilities and creativity of people and this game)
"I think there needs to be more mods for regenerating stamina, or some mods for encouraging players to use parry."
cool idea.
