Posts made by mbaddtest

mbaddtest is my profile
69% Miko from solo queues

@Johnbonne said in Parry should reward more:

As funny as that video was, you were in the Dojo where latency is going to differ significantly to a match with other players across the globe, and you were only 1v1, which shouldn't be happening in such a team focussed game.

Parrying's problems only really surface when ganged upon, or when there's an additional opponent you have to deal with.

I haven't noticed any discrepancies between the Dojo and in-match. The client-side registration for parry seems generous to me, but that might be because I'm on fiber -- timings feel exactly the same, even against Europeans.

Parry's even more broken in match, because if melee can't disrupt you, they end up ignoring you for easier targets (like tanks). Meanwhile, they're in your backlines taking massive damage while accomplishing nothing. Even if they manage to slip a hit through here and there, you have teammates healing. It completely wrecks diving characters like Bastardo, who rely on landing hits to stay alive.

For Miko, fueling evades with parries makes her the most unkillable character in the game, able to chase after anyone (especially tanks) for duels to power her staff healing/cooldown reduction, or attack backline characters like Zero, largely uncontested.

Though I'm still having trouble parrying Daemon's attacks, Dojo or not. His combo and cancel resets are hard as hell to time, it's going to take waaay more practice to parry him consistently. If you're parrying Daemon consistently right now, you've already won the game, just uninstall.

I'm willing to concede my point if you could show that same level of ability in an online match though. ^^

Yea, I'll probably have another one in a few days. Scrubbing through footage is time consuming AF. Need to learn about Shadowplay or whatever newfangled recording software kids are using these days. Besides Obs, what are you all using to quickly gather clips?

Pretty sure parry is going to completely wreck combat once people realize how absolutely busted it is.

Example:
https://youtu.be/W76gAWOCh_A

Updated with a video highlighting how parry looks on ranged specialists:

https://youtu.be/W76gAWOCh_A

@Swviz said in Ranged Hero rework idea. Melee block idea. Nerf ideas:

As a melee hero u should be able to block ranged heroes it should drain ur stamina and u walk slower, ranged heroes can parry and counter u so why cant melee heroes do anything agianst them.

Agreed. Either parry should do something against ranged, or ranged characters shouldn't be able to parry.

Being able to block all melee attacks (and even close ranged abilities like Daemon's spin, and Makutu's repel!), on a ranged character, is freaking broken. It's not even hard to do! You can get a high parry rate with just an hour of dojo pratice.

@Evade-This5965

I mean, using oil slick for the express purpose of bypassing parry: How does that even help at all? Oil slick is great at as a combo extender, but that's against players who don't parry yet. Moreover it has a 12 sec CD -- so say you manage to sneak in a single hit, so what, the damage is so low. Vanish bypasses the snare, or the puddle can be dodged out of -- but that's besides the point, it's not like a good Maeve needs to, because Buttercup's startup frames are so high. Oil slick also has an uncancellable cast animation that roots you in place, it doesn't even provide any frame advantage if you want to use it to bait out a parry. If they're consistently parrying your first hit, whip lash is the only real damage option, but that loses out badly in damage trades.

Makutu has easier time than Buttercup getting the initial hit in, since the startup is faster. But not by much. If they're spacing properly, and using the stamina gained from parries and combining it with evades, they only ever have to do deal with the first hit, as it's his only approach.

Empower's definitely a good combo extender, but the CD is 14s. That's an eternity to be able to sneak one hit through. But Bastardo for sure feels better against parry practicers, because even though he has high-startup on every swing, he's less reliant on using his basic attack to engage (with leap), and because he's spinning half the time.

So I had a though, why can you parry when flinching? Get it on the first attack of the combo or not at all. You can evade out of combos, but why be able to parry during them?

That'd be a start. But I don't think parry adds anything good to the game as it is, especially on classes that aren't melee specialists. It seems like they put it in as something cool and rewarding to master, but fighting against people who parry, and people who don't, completely changes how the game works -- and not for the better, as it takes away from the need for teamwork/spacing. Against parry, half the classes get neutered and suddenly you don't need peelers anymore.

What if parry was less rewarding for classes who aren't melee-DPS? You're already stopping their attacks in their tracks and applying a short stun while they take damage -- if it's someone in your backlines, being frozen in place is a big deal. But why does it also give back a free stamina bar? The dodge/parry loops on ranged/supports are just silly.

@D4m0R3d

i got into a situation where i played buttercup and tried to 1v1 a miko who knew how to parry. it didnt matter how many times i combo cancelled. she would parry every hit. i tried everything. it was a LONG fight. as i was a tank and she was someone who can just re heal all the damage i do. plus she could only hit me inbetween parries and her freeze ability. on someone like miko it doesnt matter cause she will just outheal the damage cause at that point the damage is being done way to slow.

Yea I'm coming across more and more of the same matches. Especially VS Miko/Kulev. It's taking far longer to kill them than it would take to kill an actual Tank. Even against some Gizmos/Maeves who were out-tanking the Tanks at close-range combat, and only getting healed infrequently. There were a few games where I spent the entire match trying different things to land a single combo, but they'd parry any time their CD's were down.

@Evade-This5965 said in Parrying with ranged characters is broken AF!:

Oh and I forgot to mention something really important. There are a couple ways to counter parrying in this game, but the best way is to combo cancel well. Usually a parry will land on the 2nd or 3rd attack, mostly because it's hard to tell if the first attack is going to hit sometimes with the depth perception of things so you either parry a whiff or miss the timing.

Buttercup/Bastardo/Makutu are easy to first hit parry, they have huge startups (getting it almost every time while fighting). The good players I've seen land tons of first hit parries, too. Will prob make a video sometime when I can tear myself away from playing.

Let's say you're combo cancelling with Buttercup, into Whiplash. It has a 6 second cooldown and channeled cast, which means they're not being staggered from combo attacks/launched, and messing up you/your team. Oil slick/hook are a massive waste to combo cancel with, for the express purpose of bypassing parry.

Combo cancelling mainly applies to extending Daemon's shuriken combos, Nidd's good at not relying solely on basic combo chains, so is Bastardo. Miko has freeze, but it's on a long CD, and again, a waste in sweaty matches where you need it to interrupt Ults/drain/channeled abilites. She loses all her pressure/staff heals if the other team knows how to parry.

Lets take the evades and ranged/melee out of the equation for a sec because I believe it's a separate discussion if melee vs ranged is a balanced setup with ranged having 2 bars vs the 3 on melee.

But if we add parry into the equation, the number of bars becomes largely irrelevant, since you're constantly getting stam bars back against melee characters. Melee characters against ranged, on the other hand, bottom out and can't regain stamina the same way. I've played a few matches where a close-quarters Gizmo would out-tank the tanks, and there's nothing you can do to pressure her if she's good with parries. You can kill the turrets and hope your own ranged eventually get the time to deal with her, but then you're not doing your job as a tank disrupting/preventing damage, are you?

@D4m0R3d

ranged characters have super low health yea.

Do they really though? Compared to Buttercup/Makutu, everyone has low health -- but all the range characters (except Cass, who's a hybrid) have more health than Daemon and Miko, who are melee. Gizmo's pretty tanky for a ranged character, Nidhogg only has 75 more hp than her.

kulev has 0 escape tools

Right, he gets super armor/massive passive healing instead, which make him amazing for parry/dodge tanking.

I THINK most mele characters should have a charge attack that ignores parry. this works with ballance cause it counters parry, but they have time to evade it.

Sure, that could work too. They have charged attacks that bypass blocks in Dark Souls 3, Eternal Crusade, and every fighting game under the sun. Hold down the button on the first attack to extend its range/power, and make it unparryable. Though I'm still not sure why Maeve can just hold her hand up to bounce off a buzzsaw that's as large as she is, in the first place.

I spent an hour in practice mode and can parry every hit of Buttercup and Bastardo's attacks every time now. They're extremely slow and readable.

The others have slightly trickier animations, but my parry percentage is going way up as I get used to the parry windows.

Easiest parries tierlist:

Buttercup
Bastardo
Makutu
Daemon
Miko
Niddhogr

In actual matches, Daemon, Nidd and Bastardo have better engages than the others (and Miko does so little damage that it's ok if you miss parrying her first attack), but pretty soon I'm expecting experienced players to start parrying everything mid-combo.

@Evade-This5965 said in Parrying with ranged characters is broken AF!:

So, guilty as charged, I started parrying people a lot as Kulev. It's basically impossible when you're getting double teamed though.

I agree, but anyone is in trouble if they're hit by multiple players at the same time, whether if it's from ranged, or melee. Most of the time you're not taking multiple melee hits concurrently, so mixing in parrying with kiting is the way to go. Kulev specifically uses super armor/tanky healing, from what I've seen, mixing in parry leads to an endless supply of i-frame dodges, since it returns a full stam bar.

But if ranged characters can't parry at all it starts to be a bit difficult. If we're taking Parry away from them, it should be replaced with something they can use because right now without it you're basically helpless against melee. If I could at least stagger them once every 5s it would be pretty doable.

As a Maeve main, I haven't used parry at all on her, before now. There's already dodges, invisibility/invincibilty, and ranged immobilize. Is there a Tier above S? Because with parries she's practically untouchable. Parry removes the necessity of tanks/peelers, since you become a tank yourself.

Zerocool gets a superjump/wall/speed buff on evades mod. Parry tanking with ranged is downright abusive, with a Gizmo you can just stand in range of 3 turrets, while shooting interrupted, since the parry animation can be completely cancelled (already had a few matches like that). If they're backed by a healer, it completely nullifies and melts any melee character, tanks included.

As for Kulev, his strong passive heal/totem and super armor are keeping him up, meanwhile you're being melted by poison/totem damage without being able to counter in turn. If parry did something against ranged, that'd be another thing, but I'm expecting a ranged heavy meta (not like Maeve with Kulev/Zero aren't already in all the meta comps) in a couple weeks to a month, as more people start going into practice mode.

Video example #1: https://youtu.be/W76gAWOCh_A

As people start getting better with parries the imbalance is really starting to show. Had several matches yesterday where experienced Maeve/Gizmo/Zero/Kulevs were parrying most attacks against Buttercup/Makutu/Miko. It's impossible to pressure effectively when they don't have to run and can casually parry tank while you get shot, and you're forced to rely mainly on long cooldown abilities. Meanwhile, as a ranged character, you can just hold the fire button down to get free uninterrupted, unparryable ranged damage. There's not even an animation for successful parries, so they bounce off you while you have 100% of your DPS.

I went into practice mode and withing 5 minutes realized how easy it is parry Makutu/Buttercup/Miko on reaction, since they don't have dash/stealth engages, and have to run up to hit you with readable attacks. Makutu/Buttercup especially, have huge windups on their swings, with simple and predictable 3 hit combos. All three also have the lowest damage per hit, so it's incredibly safe to parry them. Even if you miss the first parry, you get a free second and third attempt -- and it's safe because they barely do damage and you can choose to dodge the knockdown. If they whiff the first hit because you're kiting, you can easily parry punish the second.

1. Why can ranged characters even parry at all? Shouldn't parry be reserved only for melee specialists? It makes sense for Daemon/Bastardo/Miko/Nidd to have it, since they spend a lot of time in face to face scrums, but why do kiters with plenty of escape tools get it? Moreover, parry doesn't even require stamina, so if you drain their two stamina bars, they get parry attempts for free. If parry is kept for ranged characters, then it should drain a stamina bar, and shouldn't work while out of stamina.

2. Why doesn't parry do anything against ranged attacks? If parry works against melee, shouldn't it work against ranged attacks as well? Ie. a melee character parrying a ranged attack should reflect a single shot, or recover stamina.

The prob with Makutu is he's the least threatening/most easily ignored character in the game. Sure, he's survivable (as all the tanks are), but that just means you save him for last. His hits are too slow/weak, so he never taxes your team's healing. His charge, while fun, is mostly just a nuisance, and Buttercup gets it for free without using up an ability. Repel could easily be the worst ability in the game, it does nothing, outside of extremely specific out-of-bounds kills. Heal's nice for himself, but is counter-intuitive as a team ability, since it has a tiny range on a melee character. Ball ULT is funny, but barely does damage. His Shoryuken is tons of fun though -- only it doesn't work on other tanks.

-Buttercup is just as survivable, while putting out an insane amount of pressure and area control. She's vastly superior at peeling, initiating, and killing runners. Pull makes her extremely dangerous in team fights.

-Bastardo has far more pressure/damage and can stick to targets like a fly on poop.

IMO Makutu would be a better pick if his heal had a larger default radius, and repel became attract (AOE vortex pull). Also imagine if his uppercut could lift other tanks into the air (but not stun/stagger them).

Performance was bad for me too. My PC is several years above the recommended spec, but the game froze frequently during fights.

There's something going on with the effects that's murdering FPS -- under the same engine, 64 player Mordhau servers run without a hitch, even with completely unique custom characters, body parts, smoke, and fire flying everywhere. Here, it feels like I'm fighting against the frame drops more than anything.