Parrying
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Edit 07/02 - Video here at the 6:30 mark shows more information
In a little QnA style video released today by the Bleeding Edge team at Ninja Theory - here - a comment was dropped about a Parry mechanic being added to the game (around the 1:57 mark).
How do you see a Parry mechanic working in Bleeding Edge? Do you think it's a good addition?
I saw it suggested a lot on here during the Alpha and always liked the idea just to add a bit more depth and a higher skill ceiling to the defensive side of things. I do see the other side of the debate where it could potentially increase the current time to kill (ttk) even further than it already is, especially if all (melee I presume) basic attacks can be parried as well as all (melee based?) characters' abilities. I've heard people say it might also over-complicate things with 2 methods of defense - how will you judge when to evade and when to parry etc.
Will it work similarly to how evade works with a cooldown? Will it perhaps share the same Stamina bar?
Will it be punishable? i.e. if you miss-time a parry, are you exposed for a split second? I think this would add an interesting dynamic. Evading too much for example is certainly punishable, but more often it's in an inadvertent way i.e. you just don't have enough stamina to evade the potential next attack rather than a direct impact of being open to a free hit instantly.
Hopefully it makes its way into the Beta!
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Nice catch! She practically whispered that in there while talking about a completely different subject.
There is going to be an update and patch notes released for the next beta, so I assume it would be in there?The problem I'm having right now is how vague the term "Parry" is in this context. It's like a block... but presumably only melee characters can use it, and it would imply blocking other melee attacks, but not necessarily ranged attacks or specials? If it could block ranged attacks and specials, I'd assume that it uses stamina, as that would be fairly ridiculously overpowered with the current setup, but at the same time that'd just make it a copy of Evade with less mobility.
I'm going to make a pretty big guess here and say Parry is designed to relate to melee on melee, where two fighters land an attack at the same time and cancel out instead of applying both. It wouldn't cost stamina, simply staggering both fighters moderately and resetting attacks. What's interesting about this idea is it gives Assassins better opportunities to handle Heavy's while not diminishing a Heavy's ability to weather hits. After all, it's pretty disappointing to get in there, land the first hit, then just be totally overrun as they hit stun you and do a full combo. With how I'm seeing it, now as an Assassin you could get in, land a hit, but then get knocked back by a parry if you try to land a second hit. You're forced to reset, but you ultimately won the trade through better gameplay.
Is my idea correct? Probably not, but I'm a little confused how you could introduce a second defense mechanic and not have it be super disruptive to the design anyway. But there may be tradeoffs here I'm not fully considering... like: You can Evade while hit stunned, but you can't Parry while hit stunned. or Parry can't block everything, but it doesn't cost stamina so while it's much worse than Evade it's also free. or Parry can't easily be followed by an attack or used while downed. or Parry is effectively a very very short invulnerability (i-frames basically) that halts movement/action and has an implied cooldown... etc. There's also the benefit of it potentially applying to EVERYONE, or at least to all melees, so those Heavy characters without an Evade will at least have something to work with.
Personally, I'd rather them not get too into the concept. I've found blocking mechanics in many games to be boring, but at the same time Reinhardt from Overwatch and Braum from LoL are both really fun to play so it's totally doable. A big problem, like you said, is if it increases the ttk, which is balanced to be somewhat high in favor of team-oriented gameplay already. And if it ends up consuming stamina, it could be a completely ignored mechanic in favor of the clearly better Evade except for those few fighters without Evade.
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I think anything that increases the skill ceiling is desperately needed in this game.
If I had a magical wand I would personally give each fighter more combos and deeper variety to their attack options first, but some sort of parry system would definitely be up there too in terms of things that would help.
I'm a big fan of "reactive" parry systems, where you need to time it with the enemy attack for maximum effect, as opposed to holding down a button to block everything. I'm excited to see what they have implemented.
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More information on the Parry mechanic has been revealed by a sponsored youtuber here at around 6:30
Summary if you don't want to watch (but I recommend you do!):
-Parry system for "most" characters
-Works by "remaining still" and pressing right trigger. Moving and pressing right trigger will produce the usual evade
-Doesn't work with Ranged attacks OR special abilities.
-"If timed right" the enemy will be stunned for a very short period so you can attack yourself or run awayIt's basically an additional counter to the stun-lock issue that some people didn't particularly like
As a side note, at around 7:58 there was also an emote section revealed.
He will be releasing new videos throughout the week so I'd recommend staying tuned for more potential new information before Friday's beta!
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Thank you for this u are awesome !
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Ah good, I was kind of thinking it'd be nice as an anti-melee mechanic and that's what we're getting. He wasn't super clear on the details though unfortunately, so I can only assume that ranged fighters can parry melee attacks so long as they have an evade and that it does also cost stamina. It's also not clear if Buttercup and Makutu can parry as well. Buttercup's Burl is usually on the right trigger, so that would effectively work the same if you're just not moving, but I'm running Burl while not moving would provide the regeneration still so that seems like not a good place to have it. Makutu I believe toggles stance on that button? Which wouldn't work either.
It increases skill level in an interesting way by expounding on the evade without detracting from already vitally important mechanics, so that's a plus for sure, but it does make me wonder if this is a nerf to any character without evade? Perhaps it can be seen as a nerf to Heavy's in general since it's a fairly easily achievable hit stun?
Oh, this might be a good place to ask, has anyone noticed the differences between Heavy's and other fighter types? There's a conceptual and stat balancing difference like having higher health, of course, but I mean like how they seem to have higher hit stun resistance at times. From my gameplay and the videos I've seen, I couldn't get a clear grasp of when/how it occurs though or if there were any other elements I missed.
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Im all for increased skill gap
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@Evade-This5965 From Patchnotes: "Parry costs no stamina and is activated by pushing the evade button without directional input. The window for a successful parry is just a few frames before being hit, but if you pull it off you’ll stagger the enemy, giving you frame advantage for counter attacks, or enough time to make an escape. Right now all Fighters except Makutu can parry – we’ll be sorting out our antipodean buddy in an upcoming patch!"
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@RhombusDrache66 Yeah I was just reading up on the patch! Wonder what Makutu will get, perhaps an improvement to his basic abilities? No one else has an ability like Slap em Good, so it'd be a shame to not do something interesting with that.
