Posts made by thetruepilliger
The Great Game Type Rework of 2021
This post will feature my thoughts on how to improve upon the existing Game Types as well as a potential new one. I would like to direct you to my post on how to fix Power Collection as I will be referencing the changes I listed in that post in this this post just that I won't be going into as much detail here as I did there. The majority of this will be changing map mods to be more entertaining/fair and explaining a new game type. Imagine all bugs and mods related to the game and these map mods specifically (like the cages in Cell Mates allowing certain ranged attacks to pass through them) to be patched.
-Open Season- make it so there is a brief period in between objectives being available for capturing: by using the normal Objective control formula of having 20(?) seconds where no objectives are available will allow teams to group and have a breather before setting up to capture. This will encourage a bit more team play in the map mod and also help prevent teams from being triple capped for extended periods of time.
-Hot Potato- make the damage bonus equivalent to the damage amplification: by making these equal teams will still have some incentive to collect cells instead of just letting their opponents get majority and then quickly dispatching them with the damage modifier advantage. This is another Jules idea, as far as I remember.
-Kill Streaks- decrease the amount of damage per stack to 2%: this will make the map mod a bit less of a snowball match while still giving a massive damage bonus to players who get killing blows and live to tell the tale.
-VIP- make it so both teams have a VIP at the same time: this way both teams have someone to protect as well as a target to eliminate. When one VIP is killed the other VIP will reset making it so the teams are racing to get the VIP points.
-Cell Mates- make it so the cells spawn more often but they are on the map for a shorter duration: this way the cells stay on the map for the same amount of time overall but they wouldn't cut off players from their team for quite as long.
-Power Collection- change the pattern that the objectives are available and lower the amount of cells that spawn as the game progresses: by making it so the pattern of objectives that are available for turning in cells become single turn in, double turn in, double turn in, and single from then on players should have enough opportunities to get rid of their cells before the match becomes single delivery point for the rest of the match. By lowering the number of cells that spawn from 15 every collection phase to 9 every collection phase after the third turn in phase teams that already have a lead will have an easier time maintaining their lead and it will encourage teams to group up more to fight over the limited amount of cells.
-Odd Ball- a new game type that would combine the idea of collecting something while staying in a particular area: combine both Power Collection and Objective Control to create a new game type. A Ball will spawn at each objective point in the same pattern as Objective Control (single Ball, double Ball, and triple Ball until one team nears the score limit at which there would only be a single Ball spawn). A Ball is picked up by walking over it (like a Cell) and as long as the player stays near the pick up location they score a point every second (the size of the Scoring Zone they have to stay in to score points would be larger than a Cage in Cell Mates but there would be variety on the size of the Zone depending on the map). If the player holding a Ball leaves the Scoring Zone the Ball disappears for 5 seconds and respawns at the objective it spawned at initially. Players could only score points if they are on the ground (this is to counter Cass and Azrael staying airborne for as long as they can). If you are carrying the Ball both teams can see you regardless of abilities or the environment (this is to counter Daemon's Cloak) and the Ball carrier takes bonus damage. Map Mods would still apply to this game type as normal (if Hot Potato is active then the Ball carrier takes even more bonus damage).
I believe these changes would improve every SINGLE match except for the ones beyond repair (aka unbalanced teams/trolls). With these changes people wouldn't cringe at seeing Open Season and Power Collection would feel like a better competition.
I'm considering doing a "Core Game Play Rework" post as well taking ideas from other players and mixing in my own for how to improve the game as a whole. Look out for that one if you have been enjoying these.
RE: Damage resistance buffs/abilities cause reduced healing received.
@Surrtan i would be willing to bet that ANY damage modifier, positive or negative, is involved in these bugs. If a Hero's damage output rises or falls, so does their healing output. If a Hero's damage resistance rises or falls, so does their healing received. We really need NT to test this is depth. We cannot see all damage numbers and healing numbers, we can only eye ball and estimate. We could use your help, developers.
RE: The Great Tank Rework of 2021
@Commander-Brand from what I've tested it seems Turbocharged always gives the same amount of health (346?). Regardless how high or low your hp is and regardless of if you bring the health mod for BC. I've been running a goofy self sustain Turbocharged build on BC and it has been fun but far from replacing classic builds and Burnout.
The Great Damage Rework of 2021
Although I will concede the Damage roster is pretty close to being balanced there are still qualities to it that could use adjustment. Shredder Nidhoggr spam is the primary culprit but the rest are not without desire for some change however small it may be.
As with my previous two posts I will be using the same disclaimer here: try to imagine any and all bugs and exploits have been patched. We are purely discussing balancing as well as reworks.
One difference with this post is that I would like to point out a few things. Currently our Damage heroes are designed in three sub roles: Assassin, Bruiser, and Sustained Damage. The Assassins are Daemon and Cass with Maeve dabbling in Assassin like qualities dealing bursts of damage but suffering from being squishy and reliant on cooldowns. Nidhoggr is supposed to be a bruiser but has a meta build that turns him into a Sustained Damage dealer.
The Sustained Damage dealer is Gizmo with her territory being encroached on by Nid both being able to dish out non stop damage through basic attacks enabling them to carry fights through sheer damage output. With these changes I hope to keep heroes in the role they are supposed to be in while keeping them balanced between each other.
-Cloak- reduce the bonus damage from Stealth and the mod that increases the damage from stealth by a small amount: I'm not sure what the current damage values are so I didn't want to put a number value on these nerfs. Since the damage from stealth is primarily used for the air combo these nerfs would be targeting a high skill combo which is honestly a bad thing to do. The truth is any hero that can be juggled by the air combo can evade it, parry it, or use abilities to escape it so the air combo SHOULDN'T need to be nerfed. However, most players don't seem to know this or even react to it. They merely accept they are about to be juggled and then complain about being juggled. I only want a small nerf since at the end of the day you ALL should be escaping the combo on your own. Handouts should be kept to a minimum.
-Deathmark- reduce the CD by 20%, extend the duration by 1 second, and make it so as long as the target dies Daemon gets the reset: Deathmark has a surprisingly long CD considering it is a single target damage boost and move speed buff so a CD reduction seems fair. Extending the duration and allowing anyone to get the killing blow while still giving Daemon the reset will be nice quality of life changes to the Super.
-Shadow Strike- increase the CD by 20% and reduce the damage bonus provided by the mod "Bomb It" by 1%: these are changes that I believe Jules thought and they seem to be fair to me. By reducing the damage as well as the damage from stealth nerfs Daemon should no longer be able to solo kill tanks while still being able to put a massive dent into their health pool. The CD increase is to justify the damage the ability does and the invulerablity it provides. At the end of the day the true culprit that makes this Super really strong is the Map Mod Glass Cannon but nerfing a really strong Super is always justified as long as the nerfs don't outright kill the Super.
As with Buttercup in the Tank rework, no change. Gizmk is quite possibly the MOST balanced hero in the game. Her Sustained damage output can win fights on her own but if you apply pressure to her the dps plummets. The only thing I can think of is doing something to Mini-Mech. Maybe some change to improve the Flamer so she is a bit better at taking down tanks or reducing the CD so she can hop into it more often.
-Shredder- substantially reduce the range Shredder bolts can jump between targets: this way a team would need to be stacked on top of each other for them all to get struck and burned. What makes Shredder OP is the damage it deals and the fact it damages multiply targets easily. If the range for the bolts to jump from one target to the next is cut down to 25% most Shredder spamming will only hit a single target. This will still be effective for burning down tanks but would lose its ability to kill entire teams.
-Flame Breath- fix the animation and super armor frames in order to prevent Nidhoggr from breaking out of hitstun: currently Nidhoggr can use Flame Breath to deal damage and ignore hit stun and then begin turning on his opponent as if he parried them. That is a bit busted so to fix this make the animation faster in order to more accurately represent a shorter super armor duration.
-Ride the Lightning- reduce the CD by 20%: currently the Super to use is Death Growl for its burst damage, big AoE (with a mod), and a long silence (3 seconds?). Ride the Lightning offers bigger play potential but its smaller AoE, damage over time instead of burst, as well as the fact that he can be stunned out of the ability makes it inferior to Death Growl in nearly every way. By shortening the CD Nidhoggr should be able to use it more often forcing his opponents to play safer since the threat of a big Ride the Lightning will be happening more often.
-Feedback- increase lifesteal: although I'm not sure how much of a life steal percentage he has base whatever it is seems a bit too low. By removing the effectiveness of Shredder spam and encouraging a melee playestyle he will need to be better at sustaining himself in melee.
-Burn Passive- increase the duration by 1 second: with Shredder spam being neutered with the reduced Shredder bolt jump distance increasing the duration of the burn shouldn't be dangerous. This will also give him a whole additional second to activate his Feedback passive with will help with self sustain.
-Health- reduce his health pool to 800: for a damage role hero Nidhoggr has a TON on health. Playing him should feel at least a little risky so by losing 75 health he will be more susceptible to burst damage even if only slightly.
Like Gizmo and Buttercup, Maeve is in a pretty good place all things considered. Maybe a CD reduction on Peek a Brew but other than that she should be good to go.
-Darts- revert her nerfs to her ranged basic attacks: the nerf to her ranged basic attacks was supposed to encourage a melee play style, but it is too risky on the bird. By reverting the nerf she will be returned some of her lost dps and it will help her maintain the Assassin play style she is supposed to have.
-Rake- increase the damage by 10%: I realize she already got a buff to Rake but honestly, it's not enough. Daemon can burst someone down in less than two seconds with the air combo, including tankswith a Super. Cass should at least be able to kill a squishy quickly or at least faster than she currently does. Buffing her two basic attacks are a good first step to bringing her into Assassin level dps.
-Hightail- make the cone of daggers smaller by 30-40% and make the daggers easier to see: Hightail is almost exclusively used as an escape, which is fine, but since it does have a damage aspect that can deal quite a bit of burst I feel like it would be nice for the daggers to be in a smaller cone. This ability is her only method to damage tanks quickly so making the cone smaller will make that easier to use effectively while making the daggers easier to see will help non-tanks evade the projectiles and for tanks to use defensive CD's to avoid or recover from the damage.
-Dive Bomb- lower the CD by 15% and add the ability to grab an opponent to bring them with her for the slam: by allowing her to grab a target she can isolate high value targets, something an Assassin wants to do. Additionally this will mean she is getting a guaranteed hit with the damage and stun which is fair considering how easy the ability is too avoid. Add an animation for the "grab" so the target is able to evade giving some counter play to the new mechanic. If the grab misses Cass would still go airborne to complete the ability but she would just do so without her target.
-Health mod- bring it from 60 to 80: this way both Assassins have the same base and potential health. Damage and mobility mods should be the go to on Assassins but her current mod is abysmally low. At least give people the option to have some survivability.
Assassins got more burst or slightly lost some burst and the most OP hero in the game got taken to the cleaners. Nidhoggr should never have had this high level of ranged damage output so it is about time for him to relinquish his crown and open the door to other comps and heroes.
I'm not fully satisfied with changes but I did start off this thread by mentioning the Damage roster is the closest to being balanced. Where I made a small or no change I think is fine and where I made major buffs and nerfs may be overkill but are at least a step in the right direction. Even if I took it too far I think we all agree this patch is stale so of we were to take all three of my posts, mash them together, we could have a potentially fun new patch with all new team comps and strats to run.
Thanks for reading, homies!
RE: The Great Tank Rework of 2021
Dear... GOD, I forgot to mention Makutu cheese.
-Can't Touch Us- decrease duration to 1.5 seconds on both the Super and the mod Happy Thoughts: this will prevent cheese turn in while still keeping this Super at the same relative strength. It is arguably the best Super in the game so nerfing it seems logical but I'd rather not nerf it into the ground.
The Great Tank Rework of 2021
As with my last post that focused on reworking supports I have one for tanks as well. The purpose of the support rework was to make them all capable solo healers while simultanesouly kill double support. The tank reworks I will be describing are more to level the playing field and open team composition/builds. Double tank is a viable play style that I don't want to disappear unlike double support which is very anti fun to play against.
As with the support thread please try to imagine that bugs and exploits have been fixed (damage resistance lowering healing for example).
-New Passive- El Bastardo gains Unstoppable for .5 of a second after casting any ability (Leap of Faith, Death Spiral, Empower, and either Super): this will allow him to time abilities to ignore CC which will help him both apply pressure and peel. Since it is only .5 of a second per ability cast the longest he can chain the effect is for 2 seconds but since he can activate it off any ability he can essentially always have an Unstoppable up his sleeve when he needs it.
-Shield Passive- shields are now generated off every attack, they generate 75% of the current value (25% nerf per attack but an overall buff of 50%), and make it so shields are generated based on damage dealt: generating shields on every other attack is weird and awkward. By making it so they generate off every attack but also generate at a reduced value will add consistency to his kit without giving him an absurd boost to shield generation. Additionally, allowing him to generate shields based on the damage dealt allows mods related to damage to become more viable and Power Ups will be a useful resource for El Bastardo to control.
-Leap of Faith- improve tracking, fix buggy interactions, and reduce CD by 2 seconds: the tracking is worse the closer you get to your target, fix that. If Bastardo uses Leap of Faith on Barge, Launch, or Surge his ability gets completely nullified regardless of the angle he leaps at his target (if Bastardo comes at his target from behind he will get stunned and bounce off against Mekko or carried by Makutu and Buttercup). He already has a tough time against the other tanks so he doesn't need these interactions making it worse. The CD reduction is to help him stun more often, peel, and chase down targets. Basically, what he is supposed to do.
-Empower- add a slow to Empower and a mod to increase the range: either a short but strong slow or a moderate slow for a moderate duration will assist in peeling and chasing. Although another stun in his kit would be better it would also be a bit over the line. Increasingnthe range through a mod would make other Empower mods stronger as well as improve the ability overall.
-Supers- CD reduction on both: both Supers either have little impact or you need an ideal situation to make them work. By being able to cast them more often El Bastardo players should be able to find those situations more often.
-Health- increase Health to 875 and make his health mod 75 additional health: in the damage rework post I intend to make soon I will be nerfing Nidhoggr's health. El Bastardo never should have had less than Nid.
Honestly, no change. She is in a pretty good place right now and is mostly just overshadowed by Makutu. She could go a patch without any changes and feel relevant. Maybe something to her Super Turbocharger but she doesn't need anything major, maybe a CD reduction.
-Huaki Stance- reduce damage buff to 25%: the current 50% bonus damage is absurd. I can't think of a single mod in the damage roster that is 50% so the fact that Makutu has it on demand in his base kit is bonkers.
-Huaki Uppercut- the uppercut would no longer stun shielded targets and heroes channeling abilities: being able to bully targets with shields is bad enough but being able to stun ANY channeled ability using a basic attack is brutal. By removing the ability to stun both Mekko and El Bastardo while they have shields will have counter play to Makutu and heroes who rely on channeled abilities will only have to worry about Makutu's Barge, Attraction/Repellent, and Katamori.
-Barge- reduce the hit box back to its original size: with the addition of Attraction getting good Barges off is much easier than it used to be so the increased hit box is unnecessary. Additionally, with the damage provided by Huaki Stance Barge shouldn't be easy to connect considering you deal more damage.
-Leg-it/Healthy- make there CD's separate but increase Leg-it's CD by 4 seconds: by making their CD's separate Makutu will be able to cast Healthy whenever it is off CD rewarding players for remembering when the ability is available and enabling Makutu to be a tank more focused on healing rather than resisting CC. Leg-it is absurdly good so by keeping it how it is but increasing the CD Makutu players will need to be precise with the ability and opponents who keep an eye out for them to use this ability can punish Makutu harder and for longer inbetween casts.
-Katamori- remove the ability to juggle players into corners and decrease the CD: although Makutu is a tank focused on disruption and setting up plays his ability to juggle someone into a corner and basically guarantee their death is busted. Making it so players can escape the corner while lowering the CD of the ability will make it less of a troll ability and closer to its intended goal of being a mass disruption Super.
-Mods- reduce the value of any damage mod by 50%: the man is a tank with a boatload of disruption and survivability so he truly doesn't need damage too. By nerfing his Huaki stance and any mods related to dealing damage will open up support mod builds and make it so his combos are more to set up allies instead of doing the majority of the damage himself.
-Lifeline- make it so when the Lifeline target is bejng pulled to Mekko have it so the hero being pulled gains Unstoppable: pulling allies using Lifeline is a bit buggy and your ally won't always make it back. And when you think about it, getting stunned shouldn't stop Mekko from pulling you unless Mekko himself gets stunned. He should be able to pull allies out of bad situations consistently.
-Surge- make it so the description and mods fit what the ability describes: I realize I said things like "imagine all bugs are fixed" but Mekko's Surge has enough problems with its description that I feel like they need to be mentioned. According to the description, an Empowered Surge should only heal while traveling but if you end the ability early or get stunned you continue to heal. The mod that increases the Surge travel time should equal more healing since you are traveling for longer but this mod has no effect on the amount healed regardless of how much distance is traveled. Descriptions should be accurate to the ability.
-Sonic Barrage- increase damage and make it so it comes out in "pulses" with short delays between: the damage it deals is okay and you only really get to see it in action if you get someone in the corner, much like Katamori. By increasing the potential damage dealt and making it so there are brief periods between pulses players will have an opportunity to escape throughout the ability while also potentially taking more damage.
The tanks have been the META setters. Buttercup was "pick comp", Mekko was "turtle comp", and Makutu is "holy trinity comp". Since the tanks determine the META they HAVE to be as close to balanced as possible. As many people have said, Makutu being OP is good for the game since he has a higher skill ceiling and therefore creates a better environment. Unfortunately, there are enough other qualities of this game that are off balance that Makutu is borderline unstoppable unless he is being forced to to fight another Makutu.
With changes El Bastardo should feel viable, Makutu won't dominate every match up in the game, Mekko should feel like he is making bigger impacts, and Buttercup doesn't have to worry about someone swapping to Makutu and ruining her fun.
The Great Support Rework of 2021
Double support is still a powerful foundation to any comp and Zerocool is the only realistic pick for a solo healer in high levels of play. Now, I stand by the thought process that any hero can work in solo queue. I've had many a success as a solo support playing Azrael, Kulev, or Miko but when it comes to the sweaty matches and customs those three are almost exclusively secondary supports to a Zercool. In this post I will be sharing my thoughts on how to rebalance/rework all the supports to both make them capable of solo healing while simultanesouly weaken double support.
For the most part the name of the game will be to lower the damage they deal across the board, increase the amount they heal across the board, and increase the risk of playing them across the board. For the sake of simplicity we will assume that any bugs and exploits (Azrael's first attack animation parry window for example) are patched out so we are only focusing on balance and changes. Also try to imagine the other problems in this game have been balanced like Makutu dps, cheese, Nid shredding and so on. This post focuses on supports and how to make them work as solo options.
-Chain Heal- Increase Chain Heal healing amount by 50%: this will increase her ability to heal allies and herself without completely reverting her self sustain mechanic (casting Chain Heal on herself will heal more than it currently does without healing as much as it used to). This will allow her to heal her allies through massive punishment but still keeping herself squishy.
-Regenerator- Regenerator always heals herself and one ally: increasing her self sustain and overall healing as long as she isn't getting hitstunned.
-Health- Increase health pool to 675 and lower her mod to increase her health pool to 50: this way she has her base health higher without having a mod that brings her up to tank level health and keeping her susceptible to burst damage.
-Life Force- reduce the CD: I don't have a number value in mind but even with these buffs to healing she will need to use Life Force to keep her team alive through massive punishment. While casting she is defenseless so buffing Life Force by being able to cast it more often seems fair.
-Sacred Ground- Increase rate of healing by 25%, increase health of Totem by 20%, and remove thr damage aspect: this will outright increase healing and survivability of the Totem and lower Kulev's damage. Although Sacred Ground deals next to no damage per second it adds up over the course of a fight/match.
-Good Omen- increase shield base health by 15% and reduce CD by 2 seconds: the mod that increases the shield health is mandatory for protecting your allies so giving it a small boost, in addition to a CD reduction will increase the amount of damage he can block.
-Curse- add a mod or make it so it has an anti heal aspect: if they take the mod route make it something substantial (40%) and if it becomes part of the base ability make it moderate (15-20%). This way Kulev becomes a counter to double support and his teammates are rewarded for focusing his Curse target since the opposing team would have a hard time healing them.
-Health- decrease the amount his health mod increases his health to 75: Kulev is already the tankiest support so he doesn't need to be capable of having 800 hp. A bigger reduction may be required but to fit with his theme of being tanky I don't think his base health needs any nerfs so instead I think lowering the mod is the best route.
-Supers- CD reduction on both: I don't have a number in mind but allowing him to CC a target a bit more often or use Boon more often would be a nice change and help him contribute in fights.
-Recharge Beam- increase healing while above 50% Recharge Bar by a small amount: this will enable Zerocool to sustain allies through burst as long as the player can manage their Recharge bar. This is also to help justify the nerfs that follow.
-Bot- increase the CD by 5 seconds: I cannot recall the down time that bot is inactive but to me it seems like he has it up very often. The easiest way to nerf Zerocool's dps is to nerf Bot and remember that Zerocool cannot use Basic Attacks while healing so there is no need to nerf his Basic Attacks.
-Defrag- increase healing per second by 50% and reduce the time it takes to activate by 2 seconds: this will allow Zerocool to heal himself as long as he isn't being constantly pressured. He does a decent job of healing himself with the mod Dual Bus while taking low damage but his passive rarely makes a difference and needs some serious buffs if he is to solo support with these other changes.
-Heath- lower his health pool to 675 and decrease his health mod to 75: this will substantially lower his survivability and is the justification for buffs to his healing and self healing. The mod Speed Run makes Zerocool pretty slippery but I don't think it needs nerfs, instead make him easier to kill once he gets caught.
-Guardian- Increase healing per second by 12% and increase the amount Soul Eater stacks buff healing to 9%: Guardian is very inconsistent but this is mostly a "player skill" problem. By increasing the base healing his ability to heal in between fights will improve and buffing the amount each stack of Soul Eater increases Guardian's healing will help highly skilled players solo heal effectively.
-Soul Eater- reduce the damage per second down to 3 damage per stack and increase the self healing by 3 health per stack: Azrael flat out deals TONS of damage, by reducing the damage Soul Eater deals Azrael players won't be as scary in duels/team fights. By increasing the amount of self healing Soul Eater provides Azrael won't have to rely on residual healing from another support.
-Basic Attacks- reduce the damage the first attack animations damage by 25%: people spam this attack (for good reason) so if it gets easier to parry this will only help higher skilled players so a damage nerf seems to be in order as well. He is supposed to be a support after all.
-Health- reduce base health to 675 and reduce his health mod to 75: this will prevent him from having tank tier health while still making the mod a decent option. Additionally he is one of two supports with an escape so he really shouldn't have more health than Miko who has no escape unless she invests mods.
-Chrysalis- decrease CD by 25% and buff the amount it heals by 50%: people have only ever gotten success with Chryalis for damage and even then you have to get cheeky and fly above the fight to get it off without the shield getting broken. By increasing the healing players will want to use it to save allies and by reducing the CD it becomes a viable option.
The supports that dealt the most damage lost the most damage (Kulev and Azrael). Everyone got some sort of healing buff. The supports with escapes lost durability (Zercool and Azrael) while the squishiest support that lacked an escape (Miko) gained some durability. So if you were to run double support with these changes your team would deal a fraction of the damage a more traditional team comp would deal while also being susceptible to burst damage. A Daemon air combo followed up by a Maeve Cage and Drain would kill any of these heroes even if they had a second support trying to save them or at least force the team running double support to heavily invest CD's to save an ally.
Obviously this isn't perfect and anyone can play the "but, if, when, how" prediction game so for the most part my intention is to create team diversity without instituting a "role lock" system to force a single team comp formation (double damage, solo support, solo tank for example).
RE: To the bleeding edge developers
@Fat-Darth-Vapor oh god I'm certain I know some of the people you are talking about. I used to be totally solo queue, nearly half my time played. Then I started grouping up on and off. Now I find stacking so boring because you just stomp over and over until Illuminati comes to snipe you. I think some of those filthy stackers are coming around to seeing how stacking is damaging the game but there are still plenty that actively farm new players for leaderboard rank.
It is pretty damn lame.
RE: To the bleeding edge developers
Although I agree with Banjax that splitting the queue would damage queue times I also agree with Darth that splitting queues would improve matches. New players would be doing solo queue since chances are they don't have a group of friends to play with. The 4 stacks would now only be able to play against four stacks instead of farming new players in solo queue. Problem there is the 4 stacks would never find a match but honestly, 4 stacking is turning into a problem on its own.
RE: Survival: what needs to happen to save this game
Honestly the leaver penalty is weak. To you it is brutal because you are unlocking things and leveling characters. Backfilling is annoying but it also takes up one of those three games. Meaning, if you join a game and 1 minute later it is over that is one third of your backfills. I hate to shamelessly self advertise but try to check out my stream (disclaimer: I'm super inconsistent). If you ever want advise you can ask me directly. I love to talk about this game.
Also, apologies for getting back to you late as well. I sometimes forget to check out my own forum posts... whoops
Power Collection: How I Would Fix
The main complaint with Power Collection (PC) is that if one team is carrying a massive amount of cells, and then loses a team fight, the opposing team can make a huge turn in. This can give them an outright win or a big enough lead that you can't comeback. In some ways this is good, teams need to be good about turning in if they are carrying cell majority or risk losing cell lead and teams need to be good about intercepting their opponents who are hoarding cells. These are good lessons, but the game type could still be improved.
Taking inspiration from Objective Control (OC), decrease the amount of delivery points as the game nears the end. In OC when you reach about 480 points the available objectives are decreased to a single location instead of the normal pattern: single objective, double objective, triple objective, repeat pattern. This forces the players to transition from roaming and maintaining point control to team fighting on top of a single objective. This makes the end of a match more intense.
Do the same with PC. In PC the pattern for delivery points is: single delivery point, double delivery point, repeat pattern. This pattern never changes. Instead what I would prefer it to be is: single delivery point, double delivery point, double delivery point, and then single from then on. This gives players two rounds in a row to get rid of cells, two rounds in a row they need to interrupt and delay, and if you can't turn in during that you now need to win team fights.
So why? After three rounds of delivering that would mean there has been a minimum of 45 cells spawned (this accounts for every collection phase before delivery phase, 15 cells spawn every collection phase, 3 collection phases). This means if the match is a stomp one team could outright have won by the third delivery phase. But if it is a close match either team should have plenty of opportunity to turn in or delay until it is single delivery point.
This change would also kill the cell hoarding play style. Perma stealth Daemon, runaway Cass and Buttercup, and honestly provide easier counter play to Makutu cheese. After the last double delivery point Daemon cannot stealth to the objective and the two runners would be forced to team fight. Players could still use these strategies to collect cells but it wouldn't help them deliver in the late game. Makutu cheese is an obvious problem and will continue to be with these changes but if there is only one point people are trying to contest it would be easy for an Azrael, Kulev, or Mekko to save their Super for when Makutu tries to cheese turn in.
Fewer cells could spawn in the late game meaning any lead created in the early game would be easier to maintain. This would reward teams that collect cell majority and turn in while punish players going for kills on players without cells instead of collecting.
I prefer Objective Control to Power Collection any day of the week so I figure try to use some of the lessons from OC to fix PC.
RE: So when is Daemon getting fixed?
@CelestialUmbran yeah it can be annoying to take 600+ burst out of nowhere but if you look at what the Hero needs to invest it starts to become justified. You need at least 2 mods: increased damage out of Stealth and increase Shift Strike damage. You need to invest at least 2 abilities: Cloak and Shift Strike.
For the most part I think it is fair. The rest of Daemon's kit feels underwhelming without it and honestly this playstyle is much nicer than the old one. Same build but the damage bonus from stealth was only on one attack instead of for 2 seconds at a reduced value. This made it so all Daemon has to do was land Shift Strike out of Stealth instead of needing to juggle the target. The old style dealt slightly less damage but all you had to do was land the 2 cuts from Shift Strike instead of the current 2 aerials, Shift Strike, 2 aerials.
The rest of his kit is pretty underwhelming considering he only has 600 hp and can only burst someone down without the air combo by using basic attacks and resetting his combo with shurikens. Thats only effective against Heroes without an escape or Stamina/out of Stamina. Lately I've been practicing my parry on his 4th basic attack in the combo (the one before the shuriken reset) so I'm able to completely deny his basic attack resets. As long as I'm playing well, of course.
Overall I'm fine with the aerial combo, as Banjax said it is one of the few combos that actually requires skill. I would be fine with a damage decrease, a slight one, but other than that I think the air combo is one of the better aspects of the game. I wouldn't mind to see more of those honestly. It would be cool if Cass had one (I've sorta been able to pull something like a juggle combo), El Bastardo has one (it is insanely hard to pull off), any melee Hero has access to some sort of aerial combo just Daemon's is the best by far I think it is fair for him to be the best juggler.
Future Hero Design: what kind of additions the roster needs
Looking at our current roster our issue is a few things. Poor balance in the forms of the neglected El Bastardo, overly nerfed Miko, the reign of Zerocool, overly buffed Makutu, and the existence of Nidhoggr Shredder spam. These are cases of unbalance that makes it difficult to predict future additions since we are currently playing a game that is skewed. Only once these Heroes are balanced can we the view the game properly since we are currently viewing it through "warped glasses."
Assuming these "problems" are acknowledged and changed what should the next Hero(es) be? Because I enjoy all roles, to a certain extent, I'm going to go ahead and put out a framework for what styles of Heroes should be added.
Next Hero should be in the damage category. We've gotten a tank, a support, what we need next is a melee dps. Assuming Nidhoggr gets nerfed, or at least Shredder spam gets nerfed, we will have 2 melee dps, 2 ranged dps, 1 hybrid. Cass, the hybrid, is played mostly like a ranged hero and only uses her melee when it is safe enough. Because of this and Nid Shredder we have essentially 1 melee and 4 ranged dps. We need another solid melee hero.
Something bruiser like. A bruiser is a damage dealer who has tank like durability. Currently we have two: Nid and El Bastardo fit this description. Having another might seem excessive but we also have plenty of assassins: Daemon, Cass, and Maeve (sort of).
After we get another melee dps we probably want another support. Preferably a burst healer to challenge Zerocool. No matter how they nerf Zero or buff other Heroes, Zerocool will always be an attractive option. Recharge, Firewall, Nitro Jump, and 1Up are so good that as long as he has them it will be hard to justify NOT picking him.
Support should be a category of heroes who need assistance and excel at assisting others. A ranged burst healer sounds good, similar to Zero, all they need is to provide different utility. A few thoughts: revive, move speed buffs, cloaking, damage resistance are just a few things a new support could bring to the table to weaken Zerocool's grasp of support.
This category could be tricky. We already have enough play making potential and disruption in Buttercup and Makutu while El Bastardo and Mekko work best as a second or off tank roles. To add another tank to this game the devs would have to consider what is missing. There isn't much missing at all when you look at them. Makutu needs to be toned down and El Bastardo needs some love.
A new tank would have to have something the rest of the cast doesn't have while avoiding stepping on the toes of who/what is already in the game. We could use a tank with a barrier, something like Miko's. We could use a tank who creates terrain like Zerocool and his Firewall. For the most part I would like to see an adaptive design: one that can be used defensively or offensively given the situation.
General additions -
Although some of these already exist it would be nice to see them expanded or give them the possibility of being more regular in design. Spell Vamp is the ability version of Life Steal. A portion of the damage a Hero deals with abilities is returned as health to the caster. We have this in Maeve but only on one ability while El Bastardo has it but his returns shields instead of health. Could be cool if a Hero had this affect across their entire kit.
Hybrids are interesting and I wouldn't mind seeing more of them especially if they had a focus on melee instead of ranged. I love you Cass but melee with you is risky business.
Although the way the Heroes are currently divided is accurate (damage, support, tank) I wouldn't mind if damage and tank merged with two Heroes. Nid and El Bastardo get pulled into a new category, Brusier, which would more accurately represent their play style of durability and damage. Nid would need Shredder to be toned down and life steal toned up while Bastardo needs love in general but I feel like this would help players more accurately tell at a glance what these Heroes do and how they play.
More or less a general and quick gaze into my thoughts on Hero design, future and current.
Damage: different forms and the meta
If you read my post about healing and why Zerocool is the best support, expect a similar post, just the reverse. I will be diving into different forms of damage. Unlike my support post where I put every healing ability into a class, I will not be doing that with damage. Since every Hero, regardless of category, deals damage I will select one or two abilities from each category (damage, support, tank) to represent that type of damage output.
- Targeting - The number of opponents damaged.
Single Target -
An ability or basic attack that can only damage a single opponent. All melee basic attacks can hit numerous targets but all ranged basic attacks can only affect one opponent except for Nidhoggr's Shredder.
Abilities - Daemon's Shuriken, Maeve's Life Siphon, Miko's Stasis, Buttercup's Yank.
Area of Effect (aoe) -
Abilities or basic attacks that deal damage in an area, affecting all targets within it. Although the size of the area varies, all melee basic attacks are aoe.
Abilities - Gizmo's Sucka, Nidhoggr's Death Growl, Cass' Blade Dance, Kulev's Sacred Ground, Azrael's Void Wave, El Bastardo's Death Spiral, Makutu's Attraction/Repellent.
Abilites that effect a static amount of opponents or just one individual at a time. This is easily confused with aoe and is a bit of a grey area.
Abilities - Daemon's Shadow Strike, Gizmo Turrets, Nidhoggr's Shredder, Miko's Stasis (with mod), Zerocool's Bot, El Bastardo's Empower.
- Rate - The amount and speed in which damage is dealt.
Basic attacks and abilities that deal low damage per second but tend to have the advantage of dealing damage constantly/consistently. The majority of basic attacks are passive damage.
Abilities - Daemon's Shuriken, Gizmo's Turrets, Nidhoggr's Burn passive, Kulev's Sacred Ground, Zerocool's Bot, Azrael's Soul Eater passive, El Bastardo's Deathspiral, Buttercup's Whiplash.
Large amounts of damage dealt instantly or over a short time through abilities or basic attacks.
Basic attacks - Daemon, Gizmo (at full attack speed), Nidhoggr (melee), Cass (melee), Makutu (Huaki stance).
Abilities - Daemon's Shift Strike, Nidhoggr's Boomitar, Maeve's Life Siphon, Cass' Hightail, Miko's Stasis, Azrael's Chrysalis, El Bastardo's Overload (assuming he can stay on top of his target), Buttercup's Burnout, Makutu's Barge.
Damage Types - Classification determines the amount of damage dealt by the ability.
Abilities that deal a set amount of damage (ignoring modifiers). Nearly all damage in this game is Flat and all basic attacks are Flat damage.
Percentage Health -
Damage that is determined by the targets maximum health. The bigger the health pool, the more damage per application. Important note: since this damage is determined by a percentage, 10% for example, the rate at which any target dies is identical regardless of maximum health pool. This damage is effective against all targets but it is ideal against tanks and high health opponents.
Abilities - Daemon's Shadow Strike, Gizmo's Mini Mech Flamer, Nidhoggr's Burn passive, Nidhoggr's Flame Breath, Nidhoggr's Powerslide.
Nidhoggr and Makutu reign supreme, but why? Both have plenty of burst damage not to mention the devestating result of combo'ing them together. Courtesy of Ragekrom, who did the testing for Makutu, the meta build for Makutu (Back Breaker, Killa, and a flex mod) results in Barge dealing 208 damage base. Back that up with a Boomitar, 60 damage per pass, 2 passes total, 120 damage base. You have a combo that deals 328 damage and it can hit an entire team. That's absurd damage output considering the size of some Heroes health pools.
Healing that isn't easy. The only support capable of topping off an individual who took 328 burst is Zerocool but he can't heal numerous allies effectively. A single 2 to 4 man Barge can win a fight not to mention the potentional of even more damage coming from a Boomitar combo.
So why are these two Heroes members of the the Holy Trinity? Makutu is a tank with more dps than the majority of the damage roster, at least more burst. Since he is a tank he still has plenty of utility and durability not to mention his unique ability of being able to single handedly chain cc other tanks.
Nidhoggr, despite being a melee burst caster, has the highest multi target ranged damage and passive damage. In a straight ranged basic attack duel Nid loses to Gizmo, but Gizmo can only attack one target at a time and her's doesn't have the potent effects of Nid's. For those of you who didn't know, Shredder (Nidhoggr's unique ranged basic attack mechanic) applies his percentage health damage over time burn passive. Meaning, he can hit an entire team with Shredder bolts while simultaneously burning them down. No one is safe.
Dealing with Makutu, you gotta burn him down. Which means you play Nid. To deal with Nid, you gotta interrupt his Shredding. Which means you play someone melee and your best bet is Makutu. A bit of a contradiction but hey, I didn't program the game.
Since there is substantially more forms of dealing damage than healing (what my other post discussed) you would expect this to be longer. I'm not tiring out my fingers talking about things you are already aware of. My point is this: if a hero becomes a "jack of all trades" they quickly become overpowered and then they end up defining the meta. The current state of the game is testament to that. Can other Heroes and builds work, sure, but they lack the practicallity and simplicity of a dps Makutu and Shredder Nidhoggr.
If you are new to this game/similar games of this style, hopefully you learned something. If you are a vet who denies this then please share your thoughts/experience.
RE: Survival: what needs to happen to save this game
@Moj4do if you enjoy the game try to stick around. Or at least play it on and off. The game is solid. Community is always a rough thing to deal with. Unfortuantely the only way to learn is to play so if these players are calling you "trash" or whatever they need to back off. We are supposed to be attracting new players, not pushing them away.
Hang in there homie! If we are on at the same time maybe we can play together
Survival: what needs to happen to save this game
If you haven't seen my last post, head over to general, it discusses how poorly this game has been handled by both devs and players alike. In an attempt to return to being positive, while still maintaining a critical tone, I'm going to outline a few things that absolutely need to happen for this game to survive. I don't claim to be a genius so some of my concerns might not be as crucial as I feel they are. That being said I think the things I will be discussing are important and necessary to this game surviving.
Increase the player base -
Although BE does have an apparent constant trickle of new players I haven't noticed them sticking around. Additionally the new players don't seem to have a good grasp of the game and mechanics which makes these new players more of a liability than a sign of good times. We need a surge of new players because there are some regions where people won't even find a match, more players means better matchmaking, and we have a higher chance of new players coming into this game with a higher skill level/understanding than our current "new recruits." If you just hopped into the game and are offended by what I just said, stop, it's not your fault. This game isn't treating new players very well at the moment so if you like the game stick around and do your best to learn quickly. Not great advise but thats all I can offer you via forums.
Regular patches -
We don't need often changes, we don't need massive content drops (not entirely true), what we need is consistency. I'm talking one patch once a month, every two months. This way the players know they only have to deal with poor balance, bugs, and exploits that the last patch added for a set time. Obviously big enough problems, game breaking level stuff, would justify a hot fix but for the most part NT just needs to make patches regular.
Road map -
A feature I don't feel like is completely necessary but to others, it is. Knowing what content is coming, how much, an idea of when. This information can keep players interested knowing they can expect a new hero in a few months or that the least played hero is getting reworked. We used to have a road map so expecting the return of one shouldn't be too out of the question.
Like damn NT, Microsoft. How hard/expensive is it to have small, short ads, on YouTube and Twitch? Advertise where the gamers are, a little bit. Don't make a huge investment. Use the intro cinematic, a bit of gameplay. I mean shit I posted a clip in the Discord of me getting a triple Wing Blast train kill the other day. You have my permission to use that. Not the flashiest play but if you need a clip to get people interested that's not a terrible option. There is also paying popular content creators to play the game. A bit risky seeing as how some gamers could give it a negative representation but an easy to reach gamers is to go where they are.
Long term goals -
As the previous things are done this game will improve, player base will increase, but you can't stop there. Now you need to maintain. Once you have a big enough player base introduce more queue options. Ranked, no map mods, specific gametype (this could kill Power Collection, but meh). This would allow experienced players to play ranked to separate themselves from new players improving the experience of both considerably. New players get to learn with fewer stomp matches and dedicated players get the competitive matches they have desired for months.
A new gametype needs to come around eventually. Although many games survive off a handful, or a single one, this game essentially has a good gametype and bad one. Even the good one can get screwed up by map mods. In my opinion we have enough maps, stop making maps and work on the content we currently have to improve every match. Power Collection needs some love. I'm not sure what except for Makutu Cheese, that must be purged. A few of the map mods are gross and should be looked at for purging as well, or at least lower their frequency. If I play Open Season twice in a single day I consider that to be a grim Omen. As I said near the start of this paragraph, some games get away with minimum game types. I don't know if this game can.
Communicating with the community is something we need. I prefer some proper conversation. Now if the devs are only comfortable with popping into the Discord and joking about, than that is what we will get, but I would prefer something constructive. Hold a stream every now and then and ask us questions about our concerns and things we want to see added. Get a feel for where you stand with us. Use those opportunities to give us a sense of what you are working on, past what a road map would say.
You guys have a solid game here. NT just need to take this seriously. I know this has been described as a "passion project" but if they are truly passionate about this game then they should know they haven't given it the attention it needs. If NT has been directed to halt development on the game temporarily then we have to wait until they can resume for changes. But NT, if you're reading this, the moment you return to BE development you better come at it full throttle.
We are asking the wrong questions
The question many people ask, myself included, is "what should we expect from Bleeding Edge?" I would say "new hero, maybe a new gametype, every patch we get a new map, some sort of rebalancing." I hate to be negative, I truly truly do, but the question should be "should we expect anything from Bleeding Edge?"
The devs have made it clear. They are not going to talk to us. Is it because they don't care? Is it because they are too busy? Is it because they are scared too admit they have nothing to say and by starting a conversation they are putting a target on their back? Yes, to all of that.
On the subject of caring: B4njax pointed out that they haven't even updated Makutu's profile on this very website. I mean seriously, who the fuck could be this stupid? I find it hilarious at how consistent they are at being disappointing. Next to no marketing for the game, do they even realize that a fraction of gamers even know of BE's existence? How many more players could they get if they started advertising? The most interaction we get from them is Tetris popping into the discord, chatting a bit with SultanCat, and inevitably telling us there is nothing new for him to tell us about development but that the game will get continued support. I don't want to hear that shit anymore. Nothing against you Tetris, you at least get a participation award.
On the subject of being busy: they have two other projects they are working on. In that sense, yes, Ninja Theory is busy. I'm sorry NT, but you do have three games. Bleeding Edge is a game. Did Ninja Theory actually tell them "stop working on your game" because if they didn't then we should have a team that is working on Bleeding Edge, every, single, day. I think it is about time NT, did you put a hold on development? If yes, then for how long?
On the subject on what they have to say: it is nothing. They truly have nothing to say to us. Is it because they are disappointed in themselves? I can't claim to know the emotions of people that DON'T SPEAK but I would say that they should be disappointed in themselves. I mean damn, if you are on the BE dev team and have a reason to be proud of yourself it must be related to your personal life because you screwed the pooch when it comes to this.
There is more to this than the devs. There is us. The community. We fucking suck. We have been patient waiting for the next patch, mostly, but if my tone doesn't make it perfectly clear that I have shifted my opinion on this game then you must not be reading this post. We have a player base that doesn't improve with a gentle trickle of new players that keep the dedicated players from being able to solo queue into competitive matches and simultaneously prevent new players from learning. I am an advocate for "trial by fire" teaching methods but obviously most people can't handle the "sink or swim" nature of this game. The few times I have gotten a competitive match in solo queue is when I get paired with a 3 stack and we get matched against a 4 stack. That is hardly "solo queuing."
We are a toxic player base. We have players who outright troll from the first minute to the last, consistently. We have players who quit after their first death, consistently. We have players who hold grudges and decide "this is my personality." It's boring, it's disappointing, but its the truth. We are a disappointing player base and no can improve that but ourselves. I'm not a betting man, but 1000 dollars says certain players will never get past the Illumnait trash talking them. Is it toxic for me to bring that up, sure, but the people who feel I am targeting them with that statement are just as toxic as the players they cannot resist hating. Sorry, but until y'all give me a reason to think you aren't toxic you ARE the most toxic players I have ever been around. I've played Halo, COD, battlefield, LoL, OW and more. All have toxicity, but some of y'all are scum. I'm annoyed you are clogging my game with your shit. Fucking grow up or leave, I'm tired of hearing you moan because a handful of players, who don't even play this game anymore, hurt your feelings. Illumnati left, why are you still on them?
If we are going to be that childish then we don't deserve another patch. Tell me I'm wrong.
I do have numerous players I enjoy playing with. We joke around. We have a good time. There are players I don't play with but instead consistently play against. Again, we have a good time despite the fact I've never spoken with them (I'm basing that purely off the assumption that they enjoy a competitive match). But these few players I play with, against, are hardly an entire community. If you feel like I didn't include you in this bit don't be offended. You are more than welcome to set up your own customs or if the problem is that we aren't playing at the same time blame the Earth for not being flat. Customs are the best part of this game, fact. You avoid the new players, you play with people that are skilled and communicate.
The majority of the player base is complete garbage. Not saying this in a toxic way. If you've ever had a player who decides to go on an adventure around the map. You know what I mean. If you've ever had a Miko who only self casts Chain Heal. You know what I mean. A Maeve who focuses the tank. You know what I mean. A one trick who's bad at the only hero they play. You know what I mean. The majority of the player base isn't improving and that is because there isn't a good outlet for them to learn. Very few YouTube videos, even fewer quides, streamers who don't focus efforts on educating players. I'm not blaming them, the amount of time and energy it takes to be a content creator is exhausting. This game isn't worth it, this community isn't worth it. Since we are all thrown into the same queue they genuinely have to learn the game playing with the best players, against stacks, alongside trolls and ragers. How can we expect them to improve when that is their position?
There isn't even an effective way to fix this other than experienced players taking tremendous amounts of time. Thats not going to happen. Terrornaut, who was at one time very active in the discord, is a new player who asked questions. Many questions. Seeing them come into this game positive and looking to improve gave me hope. I haven't heard from them in a while. I don't blame them. If we had more new players asking for help on the discord or maybe a matchmaking system that did a better job of pairing them, and only them, in matches together so they can learn the game. One or two dedicated players will curb stomp them and the match maker has the audacity to put all experienced players on the same team against a bunch of newbies. This happens often.
Without any new content from the devs there is no reason for players to come to the game, stick around. So I have to ask: how long will the rest of us play knowing this is NT's throw away game? NT's abandoned puppy. NT's failure. NT's toxic pit. NT's neglect.
Toxicity breeds more toxicity. It is a cycle that has worn at everyone, myself included. I don't think there is anyway for NT or us to combat it given our current nature and their pattern. I mean we would need a patch that renews our opinions of the game. Seriously doubt that's coming, at least not soon. Without a patch then we need a few hundred players to through a major personality shift/skill level increase. You'd have to be naive to think that is possible.
We shouldn't expect anything any time soon. The series X launch is tomorrow and we have heard of nothing. I have been hoping they have been compiling there energy and efforts into the series X launch. Well NT, here it comes, what do you have to show?
Please prove me wrong NT. I'm not going to apologize for the things that I've said in this post. You deserve every word and more. I want you to make me look like a fool for saying all of this moments before an update. As I've said though, fat chance of that happening.
I keep rereading this. I don't want to post it. I know I have to. This is the first multi-player game that has been released in a while that I truly love. Seeing devs and players alike treat it this way is heartbreaking.